1) Having Labour in power splits the left-wing blogosphere, between those who support New Labour and those who are disillusioned with New Labour. Once the Conservatives get into power they’ll have a common enemy and are more likely to sing from the same hymn-sheet.

Firstly the Labour Party does not have a monopoly on the left wing or left wing bloggers. Secondly once the Tories are in power there will be no need for Labour bloggers to “sing from the same hymn sheet”. Sure, they’ll have a “common enemy”, but they’ll have the freedom to debate without having to worry about undermining a Labour government.

2) There are lots more left-liberal blogs, its just that a few Conservative blogs get all the attention. It may be that for the left the readership is more dispersed while for the right its concentrated at a few top-level blogs. Its also worthwhile noticing that Guido Fawkes and Iain Dale have built strong readerships on the back of media attention, not organically. In other words, its not that people online instinctively prefer right-wing news, but that these are the only few brand names they know.

This, in a nutshell, is it. Left wing media does comparatively little to promote left wing blogs. But at least news that spring from blogs get a mention in the English press; in the Welsh media this is not the case, despite the fact that political news and comment is pretty much run by and dependent on the blogosphere here.

I think all this will change, especially as the left come to grips with being out of power

Point of order: the Left will be out of power in England; it will still be in government in Scotland, Wales, and sharing power in Northern Ireland. In Scotland and Wales the best the right can ever hope for is to become the junior partner in a left wing administration.

“how was the left going to get used to being out of power.”

Given that it hasn’t been in power, it will probably stay the same.

Sunny,

Best of luck with your conference. On the stats, considering how short a time this site has been up and running – since Nov 2007 – I’d say it’s a highly creditable performance. One that can only improve.

I’d also say that the credibility of the site is enhanced by the campaigns and the depth of analysis that supports them. It is also interesting that within six months or so you can attract a guest post from an MP.

LC seems to me to be a winning formula.

And even the comments aren’t that shabby either.

Zing!

Some excellent points, Sunny.

It may well be that the left and the right use blogs for different purposes – very crudely, for conversation and for promotion, respectively.

As for Labour, I think its principal problem is the almost total disconnect between the aspirations of its core voters by comparison with those of “swing” voters. (One good way to get a handle on it is to consider their relative attitudes to TU funding.) Blair was able to overcome this by a combination of “warm words” and the disgust people felt for the Major government. He was also fortunate that the Tories remained dazed and confused until Howard took over.

It’s also worth recalling that after its 1987 defeat Labour fell in the polls, and I would expect this to happen again, even if Labour doesn’t recover from its present slough of despond.

I suspect the principal discussion will be about whether the Blairite consensus can or even should be resurrected. Whilst we are thus engaged in inspecting our navel-fluff, the Tories will use their first term to prepare the ground for a hard-right manifesto for the 2014 election, demolishing the NHS, breaking up the BBC, privatising welfare payments to conservative religious groups and scrapping the minimum wage and equalities legislation in the name of business deregulation. Who knows – they may even seek an elected Upper Chamber on a property-based franchise!

Anyway… I look forward to meeting people this evening

Suspect my politics would exclude me from attendance anyway but it’s always a shame these events are necessarily in London – good luck tonight!

Point (2) is the key one Sunny. Being a loose ‘insider’ of sorts (I designed his template) means I get to see just how direct the relationship is between Iain’s other MSM activities and his visitor stats on the blog – big spike following stint on the telly during local elections, likewise after the DD thing etc. That’s not to say Iain’s isn’t an entertaining or intersting blog (it is) – it’s just to acknowledge its profile is largely a product of mainstream media activity rather than vastly superior content or style and I’m sure Iain would acknowledge as much. There’s a similar backstory with Paul’s blog….

Mike – It’s about 10 minutes from Farringdon underground.

I’m with everyone else – point two is the key one.

Would also echo that we haven’t had any lefties in power for a good few decades, and am prickled and annoyed by your assumption that lefties should support/have supported New Labour. New Labour have never been to the left of centre.

I also think it’s interesting that the BNP’s party website is much more pupular than any of the three main parties – could it be that we are all looking at the opposition?

pupular? Gah. Stupid morning spelling.

Jennie,

‘course what would pull in all the punters is a decent edit facility. *grin*

LJ have a good one – you can edit a comment for spelling, but only if nobody else has yet replied to it. Of course, the BEST thing for conversation/discussion is threaded comment, which you also get on LJ.

I think there’s a fundamental disconnect between bloggers as to what blogging is actually FOR. Lots of bloggers don’t engage with their readers at all – either not allowing comments, or not replying to comments if they allow them. For me, the POINT of blogging is to start discussions, and I love engaging with my readership…

Which is why it annoys me that the only threads I /don’t/ get comment notifications on on this site are the ones where I have written the initial post. It says I’m subscribed to them, but the email never comes…

Jennie – “Lots of bloggers don’t engage with their readers at all – either not allowing comments, or not replying to comments if they allow them.”

I wouldn’t class them as bloggers in that case. I agree with you that the whole point of blogging is to start a conversation; if you then don’t then take part in that conversation surely what you’re doing isn’t blogging, it’s article writing or some kind of vanity project…….

Once New Labour goes out of power, it will be enveloped in furious infighting to resolve its future direction. What part can bloggers play in influencing the narratives and supporting various groups (factions?)

Well primarily they can join the Labour party. If anyone wants to influence the path of a mainstream political party then at the very least they could give it some money before supporting groups or factions. I think I should add that I’m not a member before I continue, I don’t want anyone to think I’m touting for support or money but that should be the first step if you’re to have such an interest in the business, not of government but of party politics.

As for Labour, I think its principal problem is the almost total disconnect between the aspirations of its core voters by comparison with those of “swing” voters

That’s a problem for every political party, some people vote in line with principle but most people vote for a different government who will make the majority of lives better. The Conservatives aren’t that different, they could undertake all kinds of policies that would upset their core voters but leave most people satisfied.

Firstly the Labour Party does not have a monopoly on the left wing or left wing bloggers. Secondly once the Tories are in power there will be no need for Labour bloggers to “sing from the same hymn sheet”. Sure, they’ll have a “common enemy”, but they’ll have the freedom to debate without having to worry about undermining a Labour government.

I might have phrased it badly but the second point was what I was trying to make. But the practical outcome of that might be that left-wing bloggers coordinate and talk more about issues and policies.

Left wing media does comparatively little to promote left wing blogs.

I’m glad someone else also noticed this.

Point of order: the Left will be out of power in England; it will still be in government in Scotland, Wales, and sharing power in Northern Ireland

Good point.

Mike:
Whilst we are thus engaged in inspecting our navel-fluff, the Tories will use their first term to prepare the ground for a hard-right manifesto for the 2014 election, demolishing the NHS, breaking up the BBC, privatising welfare payments to conservative religious groups and scrapping the minimum wage and equalities legislation in the name of business deregulation. Who knows – they may even seek an elected Upper Chamber on a property-based franchise!

Well, if they do, then that would be the best way to unite everyone on the left and get organising!

Douglas – thanks. Good points Cath, Jennie and Nina.

Liam – yup, I suspected as much.

From my point of view this sounds like a debate between the old and out-moded organisational contrast of clubs and unions.

I don’t think it is helpful to call net-based networking left or right wing because there is equality of access at a potentially universal level and there is therefore no question of inclusivity or exclusivity to divide the contributors and participants – nor is there any structural impediment to infinite digression besides and beyond asides.

This New Method of political interaction is open, but it is depersonalised by the net. Good blogging will be that which is able to introduce particular perspectives expressing personality and individuality, not one which is endlessly echoing partisan priorities, but which reinforces practical principles by infinitely variable example (discussion of life is more interesting than abstract ideology anyway) – from whence human interest angles.

Can a coordinated political movement which only exists online pass the political tests or match the standards it of expects others? I’m amused that LC has to go offline to discuss this point, but encouraged because it shows that old political realities haven’t been surpassed and can’t be completely bypassed. Or will a full report and transcript appear shortly…

Exactly these sort of offline gatherings are necessary to build the structure which will enable coordination, but the technology is splitting the organisational roles as it evolves and I see little way to avoid increasing factionalism (indeed I think the Greens, for example, are facing the choice of embracing liberal politics to maintain their coalition of support or dissolving backwards into their founding proto-political lobby and agitation groups).

In fact I’d contradict the main assumption in the original question that the web can be used to build activism because although the web is excellent at building connections and provides both the repository of information and the tools for accessing and manipulating it, it is actually a distraction from the productive ‘political’ activity of breaking down barriers and creating confrontation and exchange of ideas – does civil war or revolution break out in a beehive?

By using or encouraging use of the web as a substitute for pounding the streets which supplants the making of face-to-face contact with opponents and enemies on THEIR territory according to THEIR terms, we allow this segregation to increase and communities (whether on or offline) to become increasingly divergent, when by using the web as an addition to the existing political armoury it will enable the conversation to grow and develop more facets to enable us to overcome those differences which mark us out from each other.

So, coming after the tube crawl and the HFE demonstrations, does this mean that LC concedes the limitations of a mono-medial approach without crossover?

Agree with you on Alexa. On the Economist – the article was way below their normal standards. I said at the time:

“I’m sorry, but this article is lazy (and I’m surprised to say that of the Economist).

It is based on Alexa statistics. I see 2 problems:

1 – Alexa stats are recognised as being about the least reliable you can use for comparisons on the Internet.
2 – Alexa changed its entire basis of calculation this week, and you do not explain whether you are using the old toolbar based panel measures, or the new ones incorporating figures measured from other sources. If the author is not aware that the change is being made, then why are they qualified to write the article?”

The figures now (with Alexa having improved quite a lot) are:

Lib Con: 9,402 ; Order Order: 3,654 ; Iain Dale’s Diary: 5,968 ; Con Home: 5,242 ; Bloggers4Labour 170,927 ; Labourhome: 15,949 ; Wardman Wire: 12,637 ; LDV: 8,897 ; LibDemBlogs: 145,890

>2) There are lots more left-liberal blogs,
Have you got figures on that? I think it roughly even – but this point is not that important.

>Its also worthwhile noticing that Guido Fawkes and Iain Dale have built strong readerships on the back of media attention, not organically.
As I have it, they both got to a level not that different from mid-size blogs, and then did a 4-6 times increase in 3 months on the back of the Prescott/Temple story because the media didn’t cover it. They then held the readership, and are now effectively part of the MSM.

3) Issues.
Suggest that it is important to recognise which issues are across the board, as well as across the left-o-sphere.

>Ordo: But at least news that spring from blogs get a mention in the English press; in the Welsh media this is not the case, despite the fact that political news and comment is pretty much run by and dependent on the blogosphere here.

Just a thought. Have you tried getting a five minute weekly roundup spot on Welsh Radio like the BBRU? I’ve put out a feeler and I’ll email you if I hear anything. Might be worth bouncing of Betsan Powys (or another) if she listens to you.

My experience of herding cats is that is that the best way is to get them to follow a tin of catfood rather than obey a sheepdog. i.e., lead on an issue and see who salutes.

Enough for now. Hope the Central Committee meeting went well 😉

“How was the Left going to get used to be out of power”. As has already been pointed out, the Left hasn’t been in power so there’s nothing to get used to.

There is now a large group of people on the Left that is completely alienated from the Labour Party but are not members of Far Left groups. Blogs like this one have been a valuable way for such people to communicate and exchange ideqas and develop an identity. It’s impossible to say how far this can be taken in future. It’s impossible to say whether it will be possible to influence the future direction of the Labour Party: personally I think that it will be difficult, but no doubt some people will want to try and it will be interesting to read their experiences on their blogs. It’s impossible to predict what a Conservative government will do, but no doubt they will do something that we will want to campaign about, and blogs will be a useful tool.

(There is a definite Labour-centric vibe to this post, something, considering the state of this government, we ought to be careful about. There are, obviously, a great many liberals who align themselves with the Lib Dems and the Greens, not to mention the various left-wing nationalist parties, such as the SNP.)

I think we have to consider the scope of what we’re doing. We need backing, and we need to push on.

Let’s give this Welsh Radio Blog Roundup thing a crack:

http://www.mattwardman.com/blog/2008/06/26/welsh-blog-round-up-on-the-radio/