How is it ‘arbitrary’ if the police have to apply to a magistrate?

Cheers Sunny!

See also this mention for the Convention in the Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-malanowski/bringing-freedom-to-great_b_170026.html

How is it ‘arbitrary’ if the police have to apply to a magistrate?

Presumably, Sunny means ‘arbitrary’ in the sense of being something done without any underlying logic or evidence and done for appearance’s sake, as opposed to the legal definition.

We’ll see how long this Tory commitment to civil liberties lasts.

Lasted long enough to stop the Labour Party turning the coutry into the Soviet Union already. Heres to another hundred years of thwarting the Labour Party and its Stalinist plans

Well as Sunny is a Labour supporter I find his rhetorical question quite funny.

That point about ‘arbitary’ was by Justin, not me.

Am I a Labour supporter? Not in their current guise, thanks. I’m left-wing. That’s not the same as being a Labour supporter.

the question is, how long before these civil liberties clothes that the Tories have donned for purposes of making themselves look good come off.

Actually Sunny strikes me as one of the more neutral people here (although anti-Tory). I’m guessing voted Labour 2001, voted Lib Dem 2005.

how long before these civil liberties clothes that the Tories have donned for purposes of making themselves look good come off.

It’s hardly a populist position and they are even disconcerting some of their own supporters, the ones who associate human rights with ‘terrorists’.

I would add that it is all very well having a snipe but it would be nice to find some common ground and build on it. Isn’t that what the Convention is about?

Let’s keep people, as many people as possible, even the Tories, concerned with liberties, and no matter who gets in next time hopefully they will reverse the assault.

The problem for (if not with) the Tories is that, faced with a government determined to be even more illiberal and authoritarian on law ‘n’ order than they were in their time of office, they don’t no whether to, shall we say, piss or go blind. I suspect the same inconsistency will continue if they win the next election.

Well you’re putting up (dreadful) posts from candidates for internal Labour party roles!

The Tories will, if everything goes right for them, betaking over from the tories – so there won’t be much difference.

The LibDem’s launching the Freedom Bill is great news, and why isn’t there a post specifically for it?

It’s liberal, it’s left – and it repeals a large amount of the tory-lite intrusion against civil liberties.

I would add that it is all very well having a snipe but it would be nice to find some common ground and build on it. Isn’t that what the Convention is about?

If their commitment is genuine, then I’d have no reason to snipe. But there are plenty of warning signs:
http://www.septicisle.info/2009/02/graylings-conservatives-somehow-worse.html

Although, I generally do agree with the view that we have to find common ground on the issue. I do find the idea of Damian Green complaining quite amusing though.

David Davis, on the other hand, I’m now more convinced is serious about civil liberties. Too bad the Tory govt hasn’t invited him back hey?

Well you’re putting up (dreadful) posts from candidates for internal Labour party roles!

And we’ve put up posts by Greens and Libdems also fighting for internal and external battles.

Will – I sort of rely on people to submit blog posts or pitch ideas to me… or we run it as a news story. I can’t write everything about what is worthwhile writing about

I looked at the Birmingham one, being a resident, and saw that the editor of CiF is chairing it, and in addition, this caught my eye:

Speakers from local community groups and campaigns, including discussion of the history of state interventions in Irish, Black and Muslim communities . . .

It doesn’t look the sort of thing where an Englishman would be welcome, so I’ll give it a miss.

I agree Sunny, Grayling is a concern.

One priority is to get more Tories to make absolute, unambiguous and unequivocating commitments on civil liberties so that when they inevitably renege on them they look like total c***s.

Well, David Davis, and then Dominic Grieve made some statements and committments. One never made it back to Home secretary, and the other was quickly shifted.

I think that chap Evans rather let the Puddy tat out of the bag on the left and Liberty. putting liberty into a socialist state ins like putting ice in boiling water. This fixation with silly peripheral issues is all designed to hide that truth. Who owns me , the state or my self .

That’s the question

“the question is, how long before these civil liberties clothes that the Tories have donned for purposes of making themselves look good come off.”

All parties have their authoritarians, the Conservatives included. Sadly, the Labour party’s authoritarians have had a pretty free hand since the horrific events of 2001 and 2005.

As a Conservative, I have to say that I am committed to freedom – and I would define it in a very old fashioned manner – the freedom to do anything that is not specificially curtailed and prohibited. Many other Conservatives are also so committed … and, as an example, I know of at least 3 former Conservative Home Secretaries from different generations who have explained that they were asked to reintroduce identity cards by their civil servants but refused.

So my view is that the assumption behind the headline is simplistic and mistaken. Sorry.

Dominic Grieve’s move to Shadow Justice Secretary is hardly a huge shift…

I know of at least 3 former Conservative Home Secretaries from different generations who have explained that they were asked to reintroduce identity cards by their civil servants but refused.

Even Michael Howard refused to introduce ID cards – and he got booed at the party conference as a result.