“entitlements to welfare, equal treatment, housing, children’s wellbeing and the NHS”

Methinks this sounds too politicised to be constitutionally enshrined. Conversely rights to freedom of speech, trial by jury etc are accepted by all but the nutter fringe.

Also an attempt to subsume liberty beneath the “wider interests of the community”.

Right to trial by jury is tossed aside to.

This is a bad joke. Something dreamt up by a divided cabinet in an unpopular government at a time of deep recession which confuses the issues of rights and liberties and which fails to even understand that fact that rights – if they mean anything at all – are granted equally to everyone…. how is that going to win the sort of widespread support or act as a mythical “unifying force”?

@ Richard (1) You can add

“an entitlement to good administration”

to

“entitlements to welfare, equal treatment, housing, children’s wellbeing and the NHS”

BUT these are not to be legally enforceable rights (in other words, for practical purposes they are not rights).
So, Jack Straw’s going to try and jettison the meaningful, substantive rights we have (like free speech, free assembly etc etc) and placate citizens with unenforceable piss and wind.
As mandelscum put it on CiF:

Jacks New Act

Responsibilites
1 Do what Jack Says …

Rights
1 You have the right to do what Jack says …

From the Graun:

For instance, it suggests any claims for damages under the Human Rights Act could be more clearly informed by the behaviour of the individual seeking damages.

Am I right to take this to mean “we won’t give you the money if we decide that we don’t like you”? Rights aren’t rights if they’re not universal, and probing into the ‘behaviour’ of the individual seeking to enforce their rights violates universality.

I agree with those above who point out that unless this is legally enforceable, it will simply used as a political tool rather than being a constitutional landmark of any description.

Another wasted opportunity to genuinely take a step forward in terms of rights and responsibilities for the government and society.

Making this a Bill of Rights and responsibilities is meaningless. The document only means anything at all if it is enforcable in law, otherwise it is just a collection of platitudes, but the kinds of behaviour which make us responsible citizens are often very difficult to be enforced through law and where it is possible the laws already exist anyway.

I quote from the Green Paper:

“Responsibility – how do we encourage and promote it alongside our protection of individual rights?

2.26 Finally, although not necessarily suitable for expression as a series of new legally enforceable duties, it may be desirable to express succinctly, in one place, the key responsibilities we all owe as members of society, with a view to reinforcing the imperative to observe them. Such responsibilities could include treating National Health Service and other public-sector staff with respect; safeguarding and promoting the wellbeing of children in our care; living within our environmental limits for the sake of future generations; participating in civic society through voting and jury service; reporting crimes and co-operating with the prosecution agencies; as well as more general duties such as paying taxes and obeying the law.

Civic responsibilities
2.64 Further responsibilities which are often recognised in national constitutions are those relating to political participation. For example, in many countries voting is not just a fundamental political right, but it is also a duty of the citizen. The UK Government would not favour a duty to vote, backed by legal sanction, but it is interesting to note overseas examples. Again, the Italian Constitution sets out both the right and the duty:

Article 48 (Voting rights)
(1) All citizens, male and female, who have attained their majority, are electors.
(2) The vote is personal and equal, free and secret. The exercise thereof is a civic duty.

2.65 Many countries impose a statutory duty to vote, both in Europe and elsewhere. However, it would also be possible – and arguably more desirable – to express any duty to vote as a civic responsibility in order to reinforce the importance of political participation, but without introducing any sanction for non-compliance”.

Let’s just assume that pigs might fly and Labour gets elected for a 4th term in office and this Bill becomes law. And then shock horror, prisoners feel a sense of civic duty and wish to exercise their human right to vote. The obstacle is that the responsible Minister Jack Straw by his irresponsible conduct has failed in his duty to secure the human right of prisoners to the vote….

From the Graun:

For instance, it suggests any claims for damages under the Human Rights Act could be more clearly informed by the behaviour of the individual seeking damages.

Am I right to take this to mean “we won’t give you the money if we decide that we don’t like you”? Rights aren’t rights if they’re not universal, and probing into the ‘behaviour’ of the individual seeking to enforce their rights violates universality.

What it means is that you will not be able to sue for maltreatment by the police, medical malpractice et al.

This whole thing is about a Bill of Responsibilities and nothing at all to do with Rights.

The LibDems should be all over the press on this one, the expences debarcle – the should be shouting from the rooftop od parliament but you see nothing at all from them in the papers or, as far as I can see, TV – if they want to be elected they had best get their act together and fast!

Will Rhodes: The LibDems sold out when Charles Kennedy was unseated for speaking out in favour of all convicted prisoners having the vote.

The idea of this is to allow prisoners to be abused by the state and then state that they are not worthy enough to claim compensation.

Will our ‘responsibilities’ put the right of the medical profession to refuse treatment of fat, alcoholic, promiscuous smokers on a firmer legal footing? Does behaving ‘irresponsibly’ (e.g. carrying a rucksack on a train) mean we have lost the right to life?

JHL -

Was Kennedy pissed at the time?

Yet – I don’t see what is wrong with having an open debate about whether prisoners should or should not have a right to vote. My personal opinion I will reserve until there is a post of such.

Jack Straw and his ‘opponent’ in the other Tory ranks cannot be trusted with the legislation regarding “allowing” the British people their respect Rights that have been both fought over and enshrined in English common law over the years.

Both Tory and ‘New’ Labour are far too used to having power and do not, under any circumstances, want to give any of that overt power away – especially when it comes down to the liberty of the citizen to live free in their own country. Hence the databases they so oft proclaim to be a freedom fighting machine all there to protect us.

I see parliament now nothing more that the monarch of old – it has too much power over the citizenry and that power should be curbed!

* their respective Rights, my apologies.

is straw grasping at straws
please tell me when this law changed as i can not find any amendments on parliaments web pages, and

as i understand that changing this law would incur the charge of treason. why has nobody been called

to account

English Bill of Rights 1689
An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown
Whereas the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons assembled at Westminster, lawfully, fully and

freely representing all the estates of the people of this realm, did upon the thirteenth day of

February in the year of our Lord one thousand six hundred eighty-eight [old style date] present unto

their Majesties, then called and known by the names and style of William and Mary, prince and princess

of Orange, being present in their proper persons, a certain declaration in writing made by the said

Lords and Commons in the words following, viz.:

Whereas the late King James the Second, by the assistance of divers evil counsellors, judges and

ministers employed by him, did endeavour to subvert and extirpate the Protestant religion and the laws

and liberties of this kingdom;

By assuming and exercising a power of dispensing with and suspending of laws and the execution of laws

without consent of Parliament;

By committing and prosecuting divers worthy prelates for humbly petitioning to be excused from

concurring to the said assumed power;

By issuing and causing to be executed a commission under the great seal for erecting a court called

the Court of Commissioners for Ecclesiastical Causes;

By levying money for and to the use of the Crown by pretence of prerogative for other time and in

other manner than the same was granted by Parliament;

By raising and keeping a standing army within this kingdom in time of peace without consent of

Parliament, and quartering soldiers contrary to law;

By causing several good subjects being Protestants to be disarmed at the same time when papists were

both armed and employed contrary to law;

By violating the freedom of election of members to serve in Parliament;

By prosecutions in the Court of King’s Bench for matters and causes cognizable only in Parliament, and

by divers other arbitrary and illegal courses;

And whereas of late years partial corrupt and unqualified persons have been returned and served on

juries in trials, and particularly divers jurors in trials for high treason which were not

freeholders;

And excessive bail hath been required of persons committed in criminal cases to elude the benefit of

the laws made for the liberty of the subjects;

And excessive fines have been imposed;

And illegal and cruel punishments inflicted;

And several grants and promises made of fines and forfeitures before any conviction or judgment

against the persons upon whom the same were to be levied;

All which are utterly and directly contrary to the known laws and statutes and freedom of this realm;

And whereas the said late King James the Second having abdicated the government and the throne being

thereby vacant, his Highness the prince of Orange (whom it hath pleased Almighty God to make the

glorious instrument of delivering this kingdom from popery and arbitrary power) did (by the advice of

the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and divers principal persons of the Commons) cause letters to be

written to the Lords Spiritual and Temporal being Protestants, and other letters to the several

counties, cities, universities, boroughs and cinque ports, for the choosing of such persons to

represent them as were of right to be sent to Parliament, to meet and sit at Westminster upon the two

and twentieth day of January in this year one thousand six hundred eighty and eight [old style date],

in order to such an establishment as that their religion, laws and liberties might not again be in

danger of being subverted, upon which letters elections having been accordingly made;

And thereupon the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, pursuant to their respective letters

and elections, being now assembled in a full and free representative of this nation, taking into their

most serious consideration the best means for attaining the ends aforesaid, do in the first place (as

their ancestors in like case have usually done) for the vindicating and asserting their ancient rights

and liberties declare

That the pretended power of suspending the laws or the execution of laws by regal authority without

consent of Parliament is illegal;

That the pretended power of dispensing with laws or the execution of laws by regal authority, as it

hath been assumed and exercised of late, is illegal;

That the commission for erecting the late Court of Commissioners for Ecclesiastical Causes, and all

other commissions and courts of like nature, are illegal and pernicious;

That levying money for or to the use of the Crown by pretence of prerogative, without grant of

Parliament, for longer time, or in other manner than the same is or shall be granted, is illegal;

That it is the right of the subjects to petition the king, and all commitments and prosecutions for

such petitioning are illegal;

That the raising or keeping a standing army within the kingdom in time of peace, unless it be with

consent of Parliament, is against law;

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions

and as allowed by law;

That election of members of Parliament ought to be free;

That the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or

questioned in any court or place out of Parliament;

That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual

punishments inflicted;

That jurors ought to be duly impanelled and returned, and jurors which pass upon men in trials for

high treason ought to be freeholders;

That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are

illegal and void;

And that for redress of all grievances, and for the amending, strengthening and preserving of the

laws, Parliaments ought to be held frequently.

And they do claim, demand and insist upon all and singular the premises as their undoubted rights and

liberties, and that no declarations, judgments, doings or proceedings to the prejudice of the people

in any of the said premises ought in any wise to be drawn hereafter into consequence or example; to

which demand of their rights they are particularly encouraged by the declaration of his Highness the

prince of Orange as being the only means for obtaining a full redress and remedy therein. Having

therefore an entire confidence that his said Highness the prince of Orange will perfect the

deliverance so far advanced by him, and will still preserve them from the violation of their rights

which they have here asserted, and from all other attempts upon their religion, rights and liberties,

the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons assembled at Westminster do resolve that William and

Mary, prince and princess of Orange, be and be declared king and queen of England, France and Ireland

and the dominions thereunto belonging, to hold the crown and royal dignity of the said kingdoms and

dominions to them, the said prince and princess, during their lives and the life of the survivor to

them, and that the sole and full exercise of the regal power be only in and executed by the said

prince of Orange in the names of the said prince and princess during their joint lives, and after

their deceases the said crown and royal dignity of the same kingdoms and dominions to be to the heirs

of the body of the said princess, and for default of such issue to the Princess Anne of Denmark and

the heirs of her body, and for default of such issue to the heirs of the body of the said prince of

Orange. And the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons do pray the said prince and princess to

accept the same accordingly.

And that the oaths hereafter mentioned be taken by all persons of whom the oaths have allegiance and

supremacy might be required by law, instead of them; and that the said oaths of allegiance and

supremacy be abrogated.

I, A.B., do sincerely promise and swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to their

Majesties King William and Queen Mary. So help me God.

I, A.B., do swear that I do from my heart abhor, detest and abjure as impious and heretical this

damnable doctrine and position, that princes excommunicated or deprived by the Pope or any authority

of the see of Rome may be deposed or murdered by their subjects or any other whatsoever. And I do

declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have any

jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority, ecclesiastical or spiritual, within this

realm. So help me God.

Upon which their said Majesties did accept the crown and royal dignity of the kingdoms of England,

France and Ireland, and the dominions thereunto belonging, according to the resolution and desire of

the said Lords and Commons contained in the said declaration. And thereupon their Majesties were

pleased that the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, being the two Houses of Parliament,

should continue to sit, and with their Majesties’ royal concurrence make effectual provision for the

settlement of the religion, laws and liberties of this kingdom, so that the same for the future might

not be in danger again of being subverted, to which the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons

did agree, and proceed to act accordingly. Now in pursuance of the premises the said Lords Spiritual

and Temporal and Commons in Parliament assembled, for the ratifying, confirming and establishing the

said declaration and the articles, clauses, matters and things therein contained by the force of law

made in due form by authority of Parliament, do pray that it may be declared and enacted that all and

singular the rights and liberties asserted and claimed in the said declaration are the true, ancient

and indubitable rights and liberties of the people of this kingdom, and so shall be esteemed, allowed,

adjudged, deemed and taken to be; and that all and every the particulars aforesaid shall be firmly and

strictly holden and observed as they are expressed in the said declaration, and all officers and

ministers whatsoever shall serve their Majesties and their successors according to the same in all

time to come. And the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, seriously considering how it hath

pleased Almighty God in his marvellous providence and merciful goodness to this nation to provide and

preserve their said Majesties’ royal persons most happily to reign over us upon the throne of their

ancestors, for which they render unto him from the bottom of their hearts their humblest thanks and

praises, do truly, firmly, assuredly and in the sincerity of their hearts think, and do hereby

recognize, acknowledge and declare, that King James the Second having abdicated the government, and

their Majesties having accepted the crown and royal dignity as aforesaid, their said Majesties did

become, were, are and of right ought to be by the laws of this realm our sovereign liege lord and

lady, king and queen of England, France and Ireland and the dominions thereunto belonging, in and to

whose princely persons the royal state, crown and dignity of the said realms with all honours, styles,

titles, regalities, prerogatives, powers, jurisdictions and authorities to the same belonging and

appertaining are most fully, rightfully and entirely invested and incorporated, united and annexed.

And for preventing all questions and divisions in this realm by reason of any pretended titles to the

crown, and for preserving a certainty in the succession thereof, in and upon which the unity, peace,

tranquility and safety of this nation doth under God wholly consist and depend, the said Lords

Spiritual and Temporal and Commons do beseech their Majesties that it may be enacted, established and

declared, that the crown and regal government of the said kingdoms and dominions, with all and

singular the premises thereunto belonging and appertaining, shall be and continue to their said

Majesties and the survivor of them during their lives and the life of the survivor of them, and that

the entire, perfect and full exercise of the regal power and government be only in and executed by his

Majesty in the names of both their Majesties during their joint lives; and after their deceases the

said crown and premises shall be and remain to the heirs of the body of her Majesty, and for default

of such issue to her Royal Highness the Princess Anne of Denmark and the heirs of the body of his said

Majesty; and thereunto the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons do in the name of all the

people aforesaid most humbly and faithfully submit themselves, their heirs and posterities for ever,

and do faithfully promise that they will stand to, maintain and defend their said Majesties, and also

the limitation and succession of the crown herein specified and contained, to the utmost of their

powers with their lives and estates against all persons whatsoever that shall attempt anything to the

contrary. And whereas it hath been found by experience that it is inconsistent with the safety and

welfare of this Protestant kingdom to be governed by a popish prince, or by any king or queen marrying

a papist, the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons do further pray that it may be enacted,

that all and every person and persons that is, are or shall be reconciled to or shall hold communion

with the see or Church of Rome, or shall profess the popish religion, or shall marry a papist, shall

be excluded and be for ever incapable to inherit, possess or enjoy the crown and government of this

realm and Ireland and the dominions thereunto belonging or any part of the same, or to have, use or

exercise any regal power, authority or jurisdiction within the same; and in all and every such case or

cases the people of these realms shall be and are hereby absolved of their allegiance; and the said

crown and government shall from time to time descend to and be enjoyed by such person or persons being

Protestants as should have inherited and enjoyed the same in case the said person or persons so

reconciled, holding communion or professing or marrying as aforesaid were naturally dead; and that

every king and queen of this realm who at any time hereafter shall come to and succeed in the imperial

crown of this kingdom shall on the first day of the meeting of the first Parliament next after his or

her coming to the crown, sitting in his or her throne in the House of Peers in the presence of the

Lords and Commons therein assembled, or at his or her coronation before such person or persons who

shall administer the coronation oath to him or her at the time of his or her taking the said oath

(which shall first happen), make, subscribe and audibly repeat the declaration mentioned in the

statute made in the thirtieth year of the reign of King Charles the Second entitled, _An Act for the

more effectual preserving the king’s person and government by disabling papists from sitting in either

House of Parliament._ But if it shall happen that such king or queen upon his or her succession to the

crown of this realm shall be under the age of twelve years, then every such king or queen shall make,

subscribe and audibly repeat the same declaration at his or her coronation or the first day of the

meeting of the first Parliament as aforesaid which shall first happen after such king or queen shall

have attained the said age of twelve years. All which their Majesties are contented and pleased shall

be declared, enacted and established by authority of this present Parliament, and shall stand, remain

and be the law of this realm for ever; and the same are by their said Majesties, by and with the

advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons in Parliament assembled and by the

authority of the same, declared, enacted and established accordingly.

II. And be it further declared and enacted by the authority aforesaid, that from and after this

present session of Parliament no dispensation by _non obstante_ of or to any statute or any part

thereof shall be allowed, but that the same shall be held void and of no effect, except a dispensation

be allowed of in such statute, and except in such cases as shall be specially provided for by one or

more bill or bills to be passed during this present session of Parliament.

III. Provided that no charter or grant or pardon granted before the three and twentieth day of October

in the year of our Lord one thousand six hundred eighty-nine shall be any ways impeached or

invalidated by this Act, but that the same shall be and remain of the same force and effect in law and

no other than as if this Act had never been made.

is this the silver bullet that will kill the eu or is straw trying to fool us into thinking he can

change this english law that applies to all the people of the uk,well he cant and as to do so would
an act of treason
please google 1 albert burgess 2 brian gerrish

One for the crank file, I think.