All scum – though I don’t recall the same blow-by-blow account of, say, Darling’s or Hoon’s second home flipping.

We’re not blaming the press and Right-wing bloggers for this story?

It’s actually unequivably scummy politicians and no one else? No hidden agendas?

Great – time to really stick the boot in!

Even Sunny has come round to the Gudio view of the world!

Guido himself could have written this:

https://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/05/08/we-should-welcome-the-expenses-scandal/

Don’t forget Mr Duncan has form in being a sharp user of rules. He used the right to buy rules to persuade his neighbour to ‘let him buy’ his Westminster council property to Mr Duncan’s huge advantage.

I would say Cameron should sack all his shadow cabinet ministers who were guilty of ‘flipping’ – but there wouldn’t be many of them left. Maybe it would be a cathartic process, and give the public a sense that he is committed to not letting his own lot get away with this.

I’d say the same for Labour but there’s not a chance in hell they’d ever do anything to hold themselves to account. See this story about an email from the Labour Party to its MPs, exonerating them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/youre-blameless-labour-tells-mps-as-poll-shows-damage-done-1682647.html

This has now become very worrying. While many of a liberal/left persuasion may welcome the Conservatives getting it in the ear as well the fact is that for the vast majority of the population what they now see is ALL main stream politicians being at it, and they will probably include the LIb Dems in that view as well. When you reach that situation the concern has to be who is going to step in and fill the void? In a rose tinted fantasty world it would be someone like the Greens but in reality I fear that this is an open door for the likes of the BNP to start making big gains.

I am frankly gobsmacked by our political classes. Their complete failure to recognise their errors, as highlighted by Rayyan above, diminishes the whole political process. Do these idiots not realise that they are about as popular as Jack the Ripper? Do they really think that this is going to go away? The problem it seems to me is endemic, and for the Labour Party to excuse it for their MPs’ suggests to me that only a complete electoral meltdown might, just might, make them see sense. You’d have thought that the political parties, as opposed to their MPs’ might have seen this coming. I’d be quite interested in what the Fabian Society has to say about this.

Oh the LibDems won’t esacpe.

@LORD Rennard of Wavertree was forced to defend his second home expense claims last night.

The Liverpool-born Liberal Democrat peer claimed more than £40,000 for a second home despite owning an apartment less than two miles from Westminster.

He apparently used the cash to pay for a holiday home in Eastbourne, Sussex.

Neighbours there reportedly see him only occasionally and refer to him as the “holiday-home man”.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/05/11/liverpool-peer-lord-rennard-of-wavertree-defends-expenses-92534-23590131/

Michael Gove, the shadow schools secretary and a member of Cameron’s inner circle, spent more than £7,000 furnishing a London property in 2006 before “flipping” the second home designation to a new one in his Surrey Heath constituency.

Probably worth pointing out that rather than arrantly flipping his second home designation, Michael Gove actually moved house. The full story is bad enough without embellishments.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3604396/gove-the-full-story.thtml

Breaking News: PM apologises on behalf of all parties

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8043447.stm

How f****** kind of him.

In fact there has been a race to apologise – Cameron did so on the news last night.

But of course only “general” apologies about the “system”…nothing personal you understand.

Oh dammit! I wanted to hear Cameron say sorry too.

And why is the PM saying sorry? Only yesterday his idiotic aide Mandelson was saying that the PM was focusing on the recession?

And he can’t even get that right.

What does Brown mean by apologising for “what has happened over the past FEW DAYS”??

They also really need to get it in to their heads that saying “it was within the rules”, and that being true, actually makes it worse, not better – they wrote the rules (or could have changed them; that this was all within the rules means it is institutional, rather than a few bad eggs.

This is one of those rare occasions when I find myself bizarrely contributing towards a defence of Tories when I’d much rather put the boot in, but:

All this stuff about “flipping” homes – doesn’t this relate to a change of guidance with the fees office telling MPs to designate their London home as a second home, then changing their minds ago a few years ago and telling them to designate their constituency home as a second home, then changing their minds again?

Clearly some MPs have profited from various workarounds, but I’m wary of this term “flipping” as not all will have profited from changing their home. Some will just have done it because they were told to by the fees office who after all arbitrate claims.

Also, the Tories will smear your children in caviar and eat them with tea and scones. (That’s just to balance out this comment)

Going through some of the “illustrated highlights” online already reveals a number of attacks on Lib Dems without yet revealing their names. I wouldn’t have any doubt that they will also be caught up in the scandal.

All concerned have been a complete disgrace. However, it must be said that at least some of the tories are making some token show of contrition. It doesn’t change the fact that they are thieving bastards. However, from a PR perspective it surely must play better (and probably is very marginally better) than the absolute joke of Labour chanting “it was within the rules” as if it were a mantra, which I think really enraged people with good reason.

Personally, I would like to see all those who have been doing a lot of “flipping” treated harshly. Sadly, thats not going to happen, but I hope that at least tax-dodgers like Blears will get the boot- thats the worst of the worst.

Tim F”Clearly some MPs have profited from various workarounds, but I’m wary of this term “flipping” as not all will have profited from changing their home. Some will just have done it because they were told to by the fees office who after all arbitrate claims.”

No, many (most?) if the cases refer to MP’s swapping in quick succession, often more than once in the same year. They have almost all used this to pay for furnishings they get to keep personal ownership of, repairs and refurnishment of property they own… it seems to be something it would be quite hard to do without profiting from.

Fair enough. Obviously I’m not wild about defending Tories, I’m just keen that facts don’t get obscured amongst all the (in this case mainly justified) anti-politics bile.

Well the only one worth defending at all is Gove; he just moved. He didn’t just change his designation, he openly moved his place of residence and didn’t sell up anywhere. So he was’t “flipping”. However he did spend an unreasonable amount doing up his house so I’m not that sympathetic.

I tried to post this earlier, but my computer was jiggered.

Rayyan @ 10,

Thanks for posting that link. Frankly, Gordon Brown hasn’t got a clue about how angry people are about these ‘mistakes’. They are not mistakes, they are senatorial abuses.

There is so much info available, its possible the real bad apples are being hidden by the trivial cases. £100 to change 25 lightbulbs is not extortionate. There are plenty of people out there incapable of changing the bulbs in modern downlighters. Running and maintaining a home close to Westminster is a requirement for the job and claiming for these expenses is legitimate. It’s the abuse of this system that identifies the real fraudsters. Mandehlson claimed thousands for work on his property after he resigned so he could sell it on for a big profit. Numerous ministers and some Tories ‘flipped’ their residences to avoid CGT and to pay for upgrades to multiple houses. These are the real crooks. The claims for second homes, which are actually their family homes are indicative of people who treat the public with disdain. I’d like to see Letwin and Gove ditched because they are wet blanket toffs. Alan Duncan is useless and is just a token gay for presentation, so he’ll be no loss.

However, Labour are far, far worse because:

1) They are in Govt. They have had a massive majority for 12yrs and rather than change the system they’ve chosen to abuse it. Labour Ministers are responsible for the State authorities that manage taxation and should therefore maintain the highest standards of propriety and set a moral example. This does not excuse the other parties, but it makes Labour far worse.

2) Labour gained power on the back of intense campaigning besmirching the Tories as sleazy, greedy and without morals. They have behaved exactly in the manner in which they spent years attacking the Tories. They have made mugs of the people that voted for them, especially the Tory-haters.

3) Most Labour politicians will claim to be socialists. They have cultivated an image of social justice and claimed the moral high-ground with their rhetoric. Abusing the system, behaving as capitalist property developers shows and looking for personal gain before all else makes them the ultimate hypocrites. “Do as I say not as I do”.

As for Telegraph bias, don’t forget this info has been touted around the Media for sometime. The likes of the Guardian, News International and the BBC are too cosy with the Govt to have used this info. They would not want to risk losing their status as an outlet for leaks and press releases. They will only challenge the Govt when they believe there is an issue where they can take a more left-wing stance then the Govt. True liberals should thank the likes of the Mail and the Telegraph for bravely undermining the political establishment.

“As for Telegraph bias, don’t forget this info has been touted around the Media for sometime. The likes of the Guardian, News International and the BBC are too cosy with the Govt to have used this info. They would not want to risk losing their status as an outlet for leaks and press releases.”

erm, didn’t the Telegraph pay for this info? If so, they paid for the info even though it’d come out in a more accurate form in July, so that they could sell newspapers and manage the news in a more favourable way for their friends. You’ve got a tough job to somehow claim the Guardian are morally inferior as a result.

No, it was due to come out in a highly sensitised form after this corrupt Govt had manipulated the data. Its reasonable to expect to pay for such sensitive info and for brave whistle-blowing that will undoubtedly result in those responsible losing their jobs and subject to lengthy police/security service harassment.

How many of the numerous scandals involving Govt Ministers and Labour MPs, revealing their greed, their frauds, their lies and their hypocrisy have been unearthed by the Guardian? Let’s face it, if you so-called liberals had your way, the ‘free’ press would be banned for crimes against political correctness and we’d be none the wiser about the scumbags that errrr…….most of you have voted for. Aah, now I understand.

Someone on this website has called for the Telegraph to be banned? I’m sure making things up is an amusing way for you to pass the time.

I think its great the telegraph paid for the data, and is covering relatively well. But you just said it was touted around elsewhere- source? Evidence?

Nor am I sure that the telegraph has had any great investigative successes apart from this one against the government. Possibly you can correct me as I really could just be forgetting here.

As for your post which seems to say labour politicans should be more ashamed… well I’m not a labour supporter but they largely don’t call themselves socialists anyway. Labour may be in charge, but the other parties seek and intend to be in charge meaning they should be held to exactly the same standards. I don’t think the tories themselves would be particulary sympathetic to your arguments. Personally I think the scandal has proven worse for labour, but that just due to them scamming the system more, not becuase of any inherent judement upon them anytime they do so.

“Labour may be in charge, but the other parties seek and intend to be in charge meaning they should be held to exactly the same standards.”

Good point and I agree. However, Labour Ministers deserve to be lambasted more for the reasons I stated.

I’ve just put several Labour Minister into Google with “socialist” and numerous articles appear with them referring to themselves as socialists or referring to their socialist policies. Indeed, the Labour Party website refers to itself as “Britain’s Democratic Socialist Party”. So lets put that myth to bed, shall we. You can bicker amongst yourselves about who is the bestest socialist, but Labour politicians still act in the name of socialism.

Many Guardian hacks and columnists are wannabe politicians or activists. They believe they can influence opinions and policy. That would not be possible under a Tory Govt, so they are reluctant to upset those that wield the power. As the Govt capitulates, you might see the Guardian become increasingly outspoken in its criticism of the Labour. Too little too late, IMO.

Christ, politics in this country has now sunk so low that I agree with chavscum. On this, at least.

I’m not actually a labour supporter chavscum, I have never even voted for them. Nor am I a socialist. I think conservatism, and especially the type followed by the modern tory leadership, frowns just as heavily on these things. It may have different reasoning- that its taxpayers money, propreity, as so forth. Nonetheless I am pretty sure all ideological positions are at least publically against this in strong terms. Really, to act as if the tories are less against this sort of thing in principal only insults one party so far as I can see, and it doesn’t begin with L. Labour deserve more criticism only because they seem to have committed more theft and been marginally less contrite.

Well sure the Guardian supports the government more than other papers. The Telegraph supported Majors lot. Newspapers are quite open about this so I don’t really see the issue, but I do note the lack of any evidence any other paper had a chance to grab this doubtless profitable story.

Rumours had been circulating amongst the Media that full details of MPs expenses were being touted for several months.

So the other media outlets all hate freedom because there was a rumour they could have bought these? Why didn’t the telegraph by them sooner then? Rumours aren’t by necessity reliable, and just because someone is touting doesn’t mean they are doing so to everyone, or at the eventually agreed price.

Caroline Flint also appears to be tangled up in all this. Recalling her vaguely threatening lectures about ungrateful scrounging council tenants last autumn, that grates particularly badly…

Labour are done for with this; no matter what hideous stench of corruption is found under the opposition benches, they will take virtually all the heat. Frankly unless some truly monumental fraudulence is discovered among the Liberal Democrats in the coming days they’ll be lucky to come *third* in the EU elections. The small parties will probably put in a record showing, yes, including the BNP.

About the only positive thing to come out of this mess for the Labour Party is that it will surely now be spared the horror of being led by Hazel Blears and her terrifying Orwellian cocktail of double-speak and meaningless Blairite buzzwords…