Excellent article Laurie! Please encourage your readers to go to http://www.stopnickgriffin.org.uk and watch this video about how the Euro election in the region the BNP are targeting, North West, will work and how they can be prevented from getting a seat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv0uHWxhLgs

Bravo!

Best way to defeat the BNP is simply to focus on their ridiculous policies. Keep playing the ball and not the man, and the party will shrivel and die.

The last thing we need to do is allow the BNP to portray themselves as victims.

Although it would be nice to just tell Nick Griffin to fuck off, you’ve got to give a reason why first: “Your policies would ruin Britain. Got that? Right, now fuck off.”

People who vote BNP, in my experience, tend to have no clue about their actual policies. Spread the word and watch them die.

Bloody hell. Obviously the Eriksen comments are as vile as it gets, but I didn’t realise the BNP were quite moronic enough to *actually put the same kind of stuff in their manifesto*.

“One of the first things they plan to do if they attain power is repeal the anonymity currently granted to rape victims, on the basis that “innocent men who are falsely accused of rape have their lives ruined while their lying accusers cannot even be named”

Is this really particularly fascist?

Seeing as we abide by the principle of innocent until proven guilty in this country this isn’t that outrageous, even if one disagrees with it.

I’d be fecking cheesed off if I was falsely accused of rape by a liar.

Well, I’m in (almost) full agreement with Laurie for once.

It’s much better to attack the BNP by exposing their policies rather than dismissing as ‘scum’ supporters who haven’t looked too closely at their policies before declaring an intention to vote for them, as one writer did here yesterday.

This is how arguments are won.

The Queen has inadvertently invited Mr Griffith to her garden party in June. So in a great two for the price of one outrage, you can all gnash your teeth and wail at the fascist monarch entertaining the fascist party leader. It’s like King Victor Emmanuel (the third) and Mussolini.

Perhaps Ms Penny could chain herself to the railings of Buck Palace in protest?

I can’t even get his name right.

Griffin.

Griffin.

Like on a coat of arms.

Well Richard, you’d better make sure you don’t put yourself in that position then, hadn’t you?

Any man who claims to be against rape must support any measure that encourages the reporting of this hideous crime. And that includes protecting the anonymity of the victim.

“Well Richard, you’d better make sure you don’t put yourself in that position then, hadn’t you?”

Are you saying everyone accused of rape has put themselves in that position? What a strange assumption.

“Any man who claims to be against rape must support any measure that encourages the reporting of this hideous crime. And that includes protecting the anonymity of the victim.”

And anybody who believes in the principle of innocent until proven guilty should at least support the anonymity of the accused as well.

(4, 8 & 9): this is why I included the ‘almost’ but I didn’t want to get specific because I know the next 300 comments will be about that one sentence.

I’m happy to accept anonymity for the accuser so long as it’s matched by anonymity for the accused. I don’t see anything unfair in that.

“And anybody who believes in the principle of innocent until proven guilty should at least support the anonymity of the accused as well.”

Why should accused rapists be given anonymity?

The law doesn’t grant anonymity to defendants in criminal cases except where the defendant is a minor.

And the proportion of false allegations is “extremely low”, ranging from 2 per cent to 9 per cent, the same as any other false reporting of crime, said a recent study on rape by the HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6283719.ece

Because an accusation of rape isn’t one you can shake off: the ‘no smoke without fire’ effect. And 9% isn’t exactly low, is it?

I knew this was the way the thread would go. Forget the BNP let’s just line up with our usual tribes: all-men-are-beasts on one side, all-women-are-bunny-boilers on the other.

“But if you or I asked even the most frothing BNP man if he genuinely thinks that he will be a happy, free, powerful, confident individual as soon as all the furriners and wimminz are sent back to their respective homes, I wonder what answer we’d get? Have they even bothered to think that far?”

For the most part I’d say of course not. I don’t think it’s about the end for many of these people (aside from the real nutcases writing their manifesto and policy documents), but the means. They want inflict suffering on those whom they hold responsible for their perceived drop in status – just like any bully from the playground on up.

@11, the law doesn’t generally grant anonymity to adult victims in criminal cases either, but recognises rape as a special case. That doesn’t mean anonymity for alleged rapists is a good idea (there’s a trade-off between protecting the innocent – and being accused of rape is obviously worse than being accused of robbery or assault – and encouraging the other victims of serial attackers to come forward), but it does mean your argument is entirely specious.

I’d also be wary of quoting Dr Kelly’s study until it’s been published – Christ knows what methodology she’s using to authoritatively determine how the ‘he said / she said’ cases break down…

“I knew this was the way the thread would go. Forget the BNP let’s just line up with our usual tribes: all-men-are-beasts on one side, all-women-are-bunny-boilers on the other.”

But this *is* about the BNP’s suggested policies.

And the full report says that figures are nearer to the 2% than the 9%, and I repeat *the same as any other false reporting*

And where did I suggest that ‘all-men-are-beasts’ my husband and son are deeply upset.

False allegations of rape are the same as any other false reporting of crime, and this is also mirrored by FBI figures.

“Because an accusation of rape isn’t one you can shake off” No, and neither is being raped. Except rapists have a 94% chance of not being taken to justice. The BNP want to send women back a hundred years and this ‘protecting’ rapists is just part of it.

Why do the BNP and some men want to invisiblse rapists even more than they are now?

And 10% of rape victims are men (a hefty chunk of my case-load as I’m a S/A/rape counsellor) are they all running around making ‘false allegations’ ? no of course they’re not.

How did I know LBek was a rape counsellor. I must be psychic.

But I’m well pissed off Penny has written an article I can’t disagree with. Because if I did I’d be a fascist.

Very cunning.

“Best way to defeat the BNP is simply to focus on their ridiculous policies. Keep playing the ball and not the man, and the party will shrivel and die.”

This, resoundingly…this.

I can’t wait for Noo Laybah to save me from the big ugly ‘fashist’ one-eyed monster Nick Griffin. I am swooning on the toilet for all these valiant ‘antifashists’ and ‘antiraycysts’ with their ethically sourced courier bags, I sleep so much better at night knowing they are ceaselessly banging the revolutionary Habitat sale drum of Justice.

I think you’re preaching to the converted Laurie, I doubt if anyone here has any intention of voting BNP.

Cabalamat; you’d be surprised

I dunno, I suspect that morons like Matei might.

@lbek, glad you’ve seen the full report, obviously reluctant to comment until it’s published more widely. but probably worth bearing in mind, given the appallingly low initial reporting and subsequent testifying rates for rape, that ‘people who make formal accusations to the cops of rape’ != ‘people who report being raped to counsellors and medical professionals’.

Given what we all know about how rape stigmatises its victims, how the judicial system makes victims relive their accounts, and how that deters people who’ve been through that horrible ordeal from reliving it, you’d expect that under the current system false accusations would be represented proportionately higher in cases that make court than cases that don’t.

(and no, I don’t have a magic bullet solution for any of this. But I suspect the woefully inadequate system we have at present favours both rapists and vindictive fakers, the former more than the latter, at the expense of victims and those falsely accused.)

Well, here’s hoping that the BNP doesn’t get an MEP. But the real reason that would be a Bad Thing is simply what it says about the number of people stupid enough to fall for their stupidity. (Nasty enough for their nastiness? Back to Mad Mel again…)

In fact, BNP elected officials bring with them a silver lining: everyone can see even more clearly just how nasty, stupid and bonkers they really are. Richard Barnbrook, for instance, has hardly been a great advert for the party – and it’s fair to assume as their choice for the London Assembly, he’s a reasonably high form of the species. Whatever must the less ethical or intelligent ones be like?

“The BNP want to send women back a hundred years and this ‘protecting’ rapists is just part of it.”

Have they said that those convicted of rape will be protected?

We’re talking here about those who are accused, not necessarily guilty.

“The BNP need only 9% of the vote to win a seat in the European Parliament. Don’t sit at home and let it happen. Vote them OUT.”

Quite. As of course all sensible people vote against socialists, whether of national or international types.

Whatever must the less ethical or intelligent ones be like?

e.g.:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article:248-BNP-Barking-councillor-resigns

@24 Richard: In fact, BNP elected officials bring with them a silver lining: everyone can see even more clearly just how nasty, stupid and bonkers they really are.

That’s why I’m not bothered if the BNP get publicity. They’re welcome to as much of it as they want.

“Have they said that those convicted of rape will be protected?”

Most rapes are not even reported and the lifting of the plaintiff’s anonymity (as the BNP propose) will deter even more women (and men) in coming forward. Ironically this is starting to sound much like the laws of the nations they despise. Whats next? three men of ‘good standing’ actually having to witness the penetration.

Nut: they want to deter women from reporting rape – it’s hardly a sub-text.

So, you support *some* of the BNP’s proposals then – or is it just the ones about women and rape apology?

Ugh, certainly won’t vote for a backwards left-wing party like the BNP. They’re just Labour with racism.

“One of the first things they plan to do if they attain power is repeal the anonymity currently granted to rape victims, on the basis that “innocent men who are falsely accused of rape have their lives ruined while their lying accusers cannot even be named” (P7, BNP manifesto)”

I don’t see a problem with that, nor do I see it as a right wing policy – It would perhaps be better to grant anonymity to the accused as well, but that would create a secret, unnacountable courts, rather like the “family” courts . Are you saying it’s acceptable to be protected, in law, whilst making baseless and serious accusations against an innocent person ? The real question is why no mainsream party seems to have taken this issue up.

“Are you saying it’s acceptable to be protected, in law, whilst making baseless and serious accusations against an innocent person ? ”

Excuse me, are *you* saying that all complainants in rape cases are making false accusations?!

Check your privilege.