Sunny – your public ‘strategising’ is most amusing. In this latest rant, you variously;

a) call for party discipline
b) tell us that policies don’t count for much
c) accuse Labour of policy u-turns
d) label Brown the worse (sic) person to lead the party into an election

Tell me this is satire – it’s priceless.

“depose” or “dispose of” – not “depose of”

Harriet Harman for leader!
Sunny for chief strategist!!

Policies do matter as well as leadership, but It’s a chicken/egg situation. Brown failed as a leader because he triangulated his policies. Further policy discussion, BETTER policy discussion, is now fiutile. You really only get one bite at the cherry.

I’m not sure this article is particularly helpful, if you want to minimise Tory gains. It makes it seem as if disloyalty is rather more rife than it actually is. The one example you gave was of Harriet Harman saying something similar to things she says a lot, and of John Prescott urging people to focus on campaigning. It seems that the PLP have now rallied around Gordon Brown – whether you like that or not it can scarcely be described as anything but loyal.

It is very difficult to get Labour messages out through national media at the moment, but anyone bothering to actually read the Building Britain’s Future plan will see a government with purpose, direction and ideas, and clear water between Labour and the Tories.

Brown is somewhat more left-wing of Tony Blair (which isn’t saying much, admittedly) but he’s vastly more unpopular. Ergo, policies don’t really matter for that much.

Um, or it’s left wing policies that are not very popular. Or it’s a combination of policies and Brown’s distinctive personality. Or there’s another reason, as well as policies and personalities, that Brown is unpopular (such as incompetence of delivery). It’s not remotely as straightforward as you seem to think.

EDIT: Ooh, and I love the edit feature…

To clarify a point. I’ve said already I’m interested in minimising Tory gains at the next election – hence the discussion of government strategy.

Someone seems to be confused on the difference between ‘strategy’ and ‘tactics’

Sunny, I think one of the reasons for Brown and New Lab’s huge unpopularity, (asides from illiberal authortitarianism, intrusive nannying, fiscal incompetence, eroding civil liberties, illegal wars, pandering to turbo-capitalism, demonising the sick and poor etc etc), is the inability ever to say sorry and admit openly to mistakes.
It’s basic psychology: when someone fucks up, or does you a bad turn,then a prompt and sincere apology does go some way towards making amends and keeping relations civil. If they refuse, and continue to refuse to properly apologise, then things fester and turn into (perhaps disproportionate) hatred. Brown and New Lab’s refusal to apologise, supposedly ‘saving face’ simply serves to infuriate, and turn dislike and disagreement into something far stronger: hatred and detestation.

If there is one golden rule in (British) politics it’s that divided parties get punished by the electorate.
The next election could come down to who holds and looses discipline and starts sniping at the leadership. If we can get our act together and put some pressure on the Tories, cracks may start to appear. It may be unlikely, but the break-down of party discipline means kissing goodbye to a Labour government and everything that stands for (for now at least)

“the break-down of party discipline means kissing goodbye to a Labour government and everything that stands for (for now at least)”

Setting aside the obvious question of what a Labour government stands for and why anyone would miss that do you honestly think this shower can win if they remain united?

Setting aside the obvious question of what a Labour government stands for and why anyone would miss that do you honestly think this shower can win if they remain united?

Well, no one knows what the Tories stand for. And the polls confirm that. Discipline is important – but it won’t happen with Brown at the top. He’s fluffed up every public wedge that he’s tried.

It seems that the PLP have now rallied around Gordon Brown – whether you like that or not it can scarcely be described as anything but loyal.

tim f – look, I doubt that our discussion here is having much impact on the national polls. So it may not be hlpeful – but it’s also not unhelpful. If I did a survey of lefties and then sent out the results in a national newspaper then you could say it was unhelpful

That aside – I agree the PLP has rallied around Brown. I’ve said above that I value loyalty. But a party should only rally around a leader who actually has the capacity to improve the situation. As far as I can see Brown is only making it easier for the Tories to get a bigger majority. The polls are continually moving against him.

Perhaps some recognition that Brown is actually shit and needs to be gotten rid of, would be nice? It’s a bit like the IDS situation right. Iain Duncan Smith was shit as party leader and the Tories, credit to them, were ruthless enough to get rid of him and find someone more electable.

I just don’t see how Brown is electable or can worsen the situation for the Tories.

” Setting aside the obvious question of what a Labour government stands for and why anyone would miss that do you honestly think this shower can win if they remain united?

Well, no one knows what the Tories stand for. ”

I asked first. lol.

I value loyalty to principles rather than leaders. Labour has shown none of that.

The role of the Murdoch press has been underestimated in your article Sunny. They’ve switched off to Brown’s policies and focus almost entirely on his presentational style. That is, in part, down to Brown’s poor presentational style, but it is also indicative of the vindicitive attitude the press now have towards him.

If your ever unfortunate enough to have to read ‘The Sun’ or ‘The Daily Mail’ you’ll see what I mean. The tabloid media seems more allergic than ever to have any sort of substantive debate. Whilst the government continues to pander to these sorts of publications, the lower its ratings will go.