I love you Jamie Sport.

Heh.

That Daily Mail piece by James Slack is vile. I’ve angrily blogged about it here too:
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5421

It is about time boys the aged of five were taught what a violent nasty things males of this species had become. They need to understand what disgusting things they are.

Maybe the school could have a spare classroom with a assortment of weapons so the young boys could go and end their lives, a buddhist mantra could play in the background giving them hope they will be reborn female.

There again we could maybe spend more on people (note: not men or women but both genders) who are in abusive relationships – stop them from being human/mental punch bags and get out of such relationships – but hey – that makes to much sense so lets vilify young minds.

I opt the girls get to play in the playground whilst these boys are taught, then we could castrate those who fail a pop test to cover our bets.

#3 Wow, you honestly think it’s “feminisation” of boys that leads to the high young male suicide rate and not the pressure to live up to a masculine ideal that doesn’t suit most people anyhow?

When I was a kid I was taught boys were made of slugs and snails and puppy dogs tails.

Maybe that’s why I failed biology.

@4

No I think its the “demonization” of boys and males and lack of any real role to replace those they traditionally had.

More males leave school early than females, more men are homeless than females, more men suffer mental illness (and as you say commit suicide) than females – So you would think that Government would spend more on men in those fields… well of course not, no votes in catering to those issues. Instead school exams are changed to cater more towards how females learn and pass exams. Clinics and schemes are set up and cater specificly for women… its not even worth while going on.

Men are becoming more and more marginalized in society – and where are the changes to help them ? Exactly there are none.

Five year olds should not be learning about domestic violence any more so than they should be learning about war, murder or rape.

Funny, I don’t feel marginalised Gewyne.

But what do I know, I’m just a boy.

@7

I do not feel a victim of domestic violence, but it happens in 10,000′s of homes to others –

Maybe you meant something else ?

My sister came back from school at the age of 5 and asked my parents what the word hate means. That’s the kind of world I want my kids to grow up in.

Harman gets more awesome by the day.

When I was growing up you were taught “You DO NOT hit girls – EVER!”

Of course there were men who did – and a lot of them were ostracised by their peers – even at the pub, that male bastion of badness.

What I would like to know is what has happen from then up to now?

Is it now socially acceptable to hit girls and women?

Being an old fart I do despair sometimes.

lets vilify young minds

Young minds are shit!

Men are becoming more and more marginalized in society

No longer getting all the top jobs (merely most of them), not automatically being paid more for the same job, and not having society defer to your every whim to the detriment of everybody else are not actually forms of marginalisation.

We’re not become more marginalised, we’re just becoming less privileged.

Is it now socially acceptable to hit girls and women?

Will, it always was socially acceptable to hit women. There was even a law on the books specifying the appropriate gauge of stick to beat your wife with (no thicker than the base of your thumb). The idea that there was some golden age when men were gentlemen and women were grateful is, quite frankly, utter bollocks. People just didn’t talk about it.

Great, yet more odd thinking manics come a visiting, this time called Gewyne, oh and well said Dunc.

Nothing wrong with informing people about domestic violence. However, it would be nice if someone could perhaps mention that men are often the victim of domestic violence too (no, I’m not joking – http://www.mankind.org.uk/).

Yes they are Richard and or course that must not be forgotten.

I used to do a lot of work for the NCDV and they were very good at highligting all aspects of it, the only danger of saying, what about the men victims, is the motive behind saying such a thing because some times, it is said rather in the way that racist talk about white people being discriminated against.

Not that I think you are.

@16: The question is not whether or not men ever fall victim to domestic violence, it’s whether domestic violence is still an important issue if they don’t.

Most of the time when someone says “but men suffer from X too!” what they mean is “women’s problems are marginal, let’s go back to talking about men as nature intended”.

Which is why feminists often shut down “what about teh poor menz” discussions. Not because we want to prevent men from having access to the same help and support that women should get in these situations; simply because the help and support ought to be there regardless of whether men need it or not.

@16 – Like male rape, domestic violence against men is a very taboo subject. I’m not sure I could discuss it with anyone, and this is a subject that needs to be addressed. I’m sure it’s very much a hidden statistic as it often goes unreported proportionately.

Don’t get me wrong, I think this is a bold move by Harriet Harman, but I do think 5 may be a touch young to learn about domestic violence.

Yeah, domestic violence against men is so taboo that it goes completely unmentioned, except in every single blog thread ever on the subject of domestic violence. It’s so taboo that the image of the rolling-pin wielding harridan awaiting her long-suffering husband’s return from the pub has only been a “comedy” staple since, like, forever .

“odd thinking manics come a visiting” I have not said anything condescending to anyone on here, and your opening comments to me are these ?

When you tackle a specific topic it is easy to say that Men have had it good for to long hence we need to level the playing field. You do not level the playing field by taking the earth from one end and putting it on the other – you need to balance and level things.

Young men suffer more from violence than women – yet we will specific talk to 5 years old about domestic violence aimed at women. Why not talk to them about all forms of violence in society, teach them not to be a victim, not to accept it in others and how society is harmed by violence done by all people regardless of gender to others.

Boys are still failing at schools compared to girls, nothing has been changed to correct this even though it has been getting worse year on year since the early 1990′s. 50% of Girls go onto University, 38% of boys. So we are already writing off boys of school age now. Where is their help ?

Men die younger than women, are just as acceptable to disease as women yet care to point out where the majority of Health care specific scheme go ? Men suffer more form mental illness and suicide, where is heir help ?

Its one thing to say men have had it good for a long time, but another to stack the decks in favour of women – instead of always creating favouritism for on or the other how about true equality. I noticed a few year back that the EHRC changed their stance from pro female to get equality, to a more equality for everyone stance. Maybe its time society and you followed.

Gewyne:

Your logic is flawed and your parameters of knowledge limited, which is to be expected from the opinions you bandy about, you are entitled to them but don’t expect not be mocked for having them.

For example, your first paragraph is a straw man, nothing is being taken away from men and also, you make out as if we have some level of equality when in reality, women still face discrimination across the board. You remind me of the right-wing Yanks who think the only vicitms of racism in the US are white folks.

And then you come across like a right goon when you try and draw a comparison between the number of males that are victims or ANY violence and women that are victims of domestic violence, the two are chalk and cheese and why you seem so depserate to bring the two together only suggests alarming and underhand motives and a flawed moral compass.

And then you wade further and further off topic, bringing in educational success based on gender…although I do wish the greater academic acheivement of females was at all reflected in our society but women are still marginalised in positions of power.

And then you explode the debate to a whole raft of issues, that are far too complex and nuanced to be discussing in this thread. You do know that by doing so you take the debate off topic and also open a whole can of worms, for it’s fair game once you start drawing in unrelated topics to justify your points, women suffer far more in far more areas.

You are now just making wild and false assumptions

“you make out as if we have some level of equality when in reality, women still face discrimination across the board”

No I have not. I have said that you do not get equality by promoting one sex over the other – you need to treat both equally (and not men over women, women over men).

The ideas you are trying to pin on me are beyond anything I said. People should be taught about all violence and not just domestic violence, and you attack my position on that. Yes domestic violence is bad, but so are young kids carrying knives, people being killed defending younger brothers in playgrounds, or bullying.

You then suggest I have “alarming and underhand motives”, you must be so paranoid, maybe you can take of your tin foil hat for a second. I will ignore your derogatory “Yank” remarks for the baiting that it is (though I am seeing a pattern in your posting now).

If you feel women deserve better treatment and men need to be hamstrung to get equality then your welcome to your view. I believe that you level the playing field legally and socially and let the water find its level – you believe in building damns and slashing paddling pools to attempt to get the same thing.

Nah, it is you that is doing that, by trying to explode the debate into something it is not in this format, one has to question the motives of such an act.

As you don’t seem to want to offer anything on the actual topic itself, best to not bother at all.

“more odd thinking manics come a visiting, this time called Gewyne

Your logic is flawed and your parameters of knowledge limited

You remind me of the right-wing Yanks who think the only victims of racism in the US are white folks.

And then you come across like a right goon

suggests alarming and underhand motives and a flawed moral compass”

Probably best it stops seeing as a large portion of what you write as above are just personal attacks or attempted slurs and not an attempt to debate anything.

My posts were not of topic but addressing the posters as things came up – my last post directly states my position on the stories context (as well as addressing what you brought up).

But as we will get nowhere, probably best to draw a line under it.

Yes indeed.

Dunc, perhaps those of us who have suffered domestic abuse think awareness of it should go a bit beyond being a ‘comedy staple’.

Harriet Harman’s Lies About Rape Exposed Today

http://www.harrietharmansucks.com

Good grief James you’re a daft sexist.

The home remains the most dangerous place for a woman, if you want to be beaten, raped and possibly killed, enter into a relationship with a battering male partner. You are more likely to be killed if you try to leave and if you don’t you will be labelled as mentally ill. In England and Wales, approx 50 per cent of female homicides are committed by a partner or ex-partner. Male violence against women is responsible for more sick days than anything else, and it impacts on children both psychologically and educationally. It has been around for hundreds of years and no government, as yet, addressed it. Whilst I have no doubt that some men do suffer domestic violence, it is probably a good idea to deal with the existing problem of male violence against women first.