Whatever money it generates is it the local authority’s job to take money from local residents in order to subsidise local businesses?

Yes, I would have thought the liberal approach was to let the businesses subsidise it themselves.

No word about the money he has saved off his own salary and is trying to save elsewhere: http://devilskitchen.me.uk/2009/08/wielding-stiletto-with-gusto.html

Sounds like he is a fairly non-ideological cost-cutter. So if gay pride makes money, he lets it happen. Anyone would think you guys didn’t really care about getting value for money out of local government.

A little recapping at this point may help to put all this in a tad better perspective.

In Donny, as it’s known, the local pols like to enjoy a bit of blatant junketing now and then while working.

Try this news report from December 1997:

“A council at the centre of a police fraud inquiry has been criticised in an independent report for blatant junketing which cost the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/40990.stm

As for the fraud inquiry mentioned, this piece in The Guardian by Nick Cohen will help to illuminate who prompted it – a Donny resident and a friend of Mrs Blair’s dad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/1999/aug/08/1

Naturally, events moved on from there:

“The worst local government corruption case since the Poulson scandal of the 1970s ended yesterday with hefty jail terms for a senior Labour councillor and the property developer who bribed him.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2002/mar/13/uknews

Btw according to press reports, John Prescott has been a regular visitor to Doncaster in recent years to see his friend, Rosie Winterton, a local MP:

“Neighbours say the Deputy Prime Minister – a close personal friend of Ms Winterton’s for more than 25 years – has paid ‘dozens’ of visits to her £350,000 semi-detached house over the past three years.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-395917/Prescott-The-cats-bag.html

‘I have only two words of German: “Auf” and “Wiedersehen”, ‘ he says. ‘But those are the only words I need.’

This is just being a jerk, but for some reason the Mail is now promoting such behaviour?

“He has written to the Electoral Commission asking them to scrap two-thirds of Doncaster’s 63 council seats in order to save the town £800,000 a year.”

This is an attack on democracy, and what are the chances of it actually being approved?

“Deeply sceptical of ‘green claptrap’”

This just means he doesn’t care about scientific evidence or Doncaster’s future.

“what has really marked out Mr Davies for liberal opprobrium is his gratuitously provocative assault on what he calls ‘the culture of political correctness’.”

Is it really the job of a mayor to be “gratuitously provocative”? Isn’t this just childishness?

“‘Going on about diversity causes racial tension, it doesn’t improve it,’ he says. ‘The Government has just admitted that gipsies should be given special treatment and that only makes people angry.”

Because saying that Gypsies are being given special treatment, that doesn’t cause racial tension, does it?

“A non-practising Anglican, he says he is attracted by certain tenets of Buddhism and believes the Taliban could teach us a thing or two about family values.”

Er, OK…

And the really revealing bit:

“his son, Philip, is Tory MP for Shipley.”

Philip “rent a PC Gone Mad quote” Davies? What a surprise.

I would have thought the liberal approach was to let the businesses subsidise it themselves.

Not necessarily.

Why should only businesses have a say?

Philip “rent a PC Gone Mad quote” Davies? What a surprise.

Oh bloody hell, not that him. I remember he went on this massive rant against Muslims who supposedly desecrated this soldier’s house. Turns out the Sun story was a complete lie. But he liked his ‘these Muslims aren’t attuned to our cultural values’ rant. Like father like son I guess.

“‘Going on about diversity causes racial tension, it doesn’t improve it,’ he says. ‘The Government has just admitted that gipsies should be given special treatment and that only makes people angry.”

That story was also total bullshit too. It came from a guidline which basically said Gipsies should be treated equally and not discriminated against. It’s PC gone mad when you can’t even treat people as sub-human scum anymore…

I would have thought the liberal approach was to let the businesses subsidise it themselves

I believe you’re thinking of the ‘libertarian’ approach.

No word about the money he has saved off his own salary…Sounds like he is a fairly non-ideological cost-cutter.

Did you not bother reading the post? He banned an event even though it would lose Doncaster and local businesses thousands of pounds, purely on ideological grounds (ie that he doesn’t like teh gays) And yes, he cut his own salary, which is a nice PR move, but also wanted to fire a number of people from the local council – again on ideological grounds.

How can contempt for diversity be a good thing in anyone’s book, nevermind being a “devotee of the birch and the noose” (which makes him sound like a sex offender anyway)?

Yet anothe monstrous tit who knows not of what they speak.

“Did you not bother reading the post? He banned an event even though it would lose Doncaster and local businesses thousands of pounds, purely on ideological grounds (ie that he doesn’t like teh gays) And yes, he cut his own salary, which is a nice PR move, but also wanted to fire a number of people from the local council – again on ideological grounds.”

The gay pride festival is itself a partisan and ideological demonstration. The council has therefore absolutely no right to fund it any more than it should be allowed to fund a anti-gay parade. It’s absolutely indefensible.

“I’m saying… that hard-pressed taxpayer’s money should not be spent on promoting any type of sexuality, whether it’s straight or gay”.

Exactly right. He hasn’t made a tit of himself. He is stating what the vast majority of people believe to be right.

J. Noakes misses the point so badly he has actualy lapped it and still can’t see it.

To be clear Noakes you nob, he didn’t even know what funding was involved int he first place and then, if you’d bothered to read the post, you’d have learnt that he backtracked and gave the event the £3000 funding promised to it.

Oh dear, you’re a mess.

J Noakes, try failing any harder and you’ll split in two. Do you seriously believe councils should fund anti-gay parades just as much as they do gay pride marches? Really? Really? Really? Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Because councils want to promote acceptance and tolerance of a minority (note to thickos: this doesn’t=”promoting” homosexuality), they should equally fund bigots? Really?

I suppose you believe funding things to promote equality and the rights of minorities facing persecution is pcgonemad, right? Because minorities are bad, right, and it’s the majority that’s persecuted?

This mean-spiritied provincialism WILL be beaten!

Roll on:

Bestiality Pride Day [Woof!]

Necro Pride Day [parading fromthe mortuary]

Pedo Pride Day [about 20+ years from now]

I’d laugh Trewd but you are clumsily making the false connection between homosexuality and a collection of mental health issues.

Being that wrong must hurt.

In Morecambe 30+ years ago the Conservatives – i.e. the FatCat business interests – simply LOVED every possible promotional opportunity to bring business to the town and thus line their own pockets – distaste aside, GAY PRIDE DAY would have delighted them!

BUT

… the Ratepayers’ Party detested pissing away public money on the promotion of one bogus idiocy after another: THIS DAY and THAT DAY at the expense of the comparatively poor ordinary person in the town [very ordinary working people and penny-pinching Lancashire and West Yorkshire retirees.]

Glad you’ve cleared up the fact that you’re a homophobic bigot.

Smashing.

Homophobic Bigotry has – let us say – Bugger All to do with anything – as for me, I’d gladly encourage a Nationwide Public Buggery Day so long as MY rates and taxes were not paying for it!

D H-G draws a false distinction between a supposedly-natural desire for one chap to do you-know-what with another chap in approved Vasilene-greased Merchant Navy style and the perfectly reasonable Humbert Humbert desire that some so-called oldies have for willing and appreciative youngies to do what their deesires prompt them to do and – given the right circumstances – the vice-versa desire that some very eager and very-much-more-than-willing youngies have for the embraces of sympatico so-called oldies.

Use your Ouidja Board and contact giggly little Aisha or Dolores Haze!

Concerning the legitimate demans of furries and necries* I can only say that in 20 to 30 years’ time every self-respecting Guardianista will be stridently advancing their cause.

* a new word as of today
Learn it and use it

Trewd, you’re talking bollocks you daft bigot, just because you’re prejudiced towards the LGBT community, doesn’t mean we all are but the more you go on the more you expose yourself as a homophobe.

D H-G says kid-love desires are a result of mental aberrations

Every honest boy will ‘confess’ that he had sexual desires at 9-10-11-12 and almost every girlie is playing with herself at 9 or earlier.

Where is one to draw the line?

Me, I’d halve the age of consent to eight.

Trewd, in your vulgar efforts to push your horrid little agenda, you’re painting yourself into a dark little corner with awful logic so flawed it’s a joke.

Keep going, before long we won’t be able to see you at all.

D H-G is a necrophobe and zoophobe bigot!

So there!

==================================

Let us please open this debate to more than 2 screaming old nutters slurping their Campari and hitting the keys in their frenzied furious rage!

Again, you daft bigot, you can’t connect child abuse and those that fuck animals to gay sex, as much as you try.

Now fuck off.

And I don’t drink Campari duck, or am I old or a nutter; just for the record you cunt.

Trewd, do you honestly not see how linking gayness to bestiality etc is such a fail? Among other reasons, gay relationships are consensual. They harm no one. It’s such an obvious difference, I didn’t think anyone would need to point it out.

Indeed but there is more to it than that, it’s a classic bigot tactic, they connect the LGBT sexuality with something illegal, something fundementally wrong so as to tar homosexuality as somehow connected.

Either way, Trewd and his ilk are sick fucks with a prejudiced chip on their stupid shoulders.

I agree. It is a pretty classic (and tiresome) tactic.

Thgis furious frenzied nutter is off for an evening’s hare-coursing so please carry on as best you can without me!

ERRATUM:

This furious frenzied nutter is off for an evening’s hare-coursing so please carry on as best you can without me!

It goes without saying that there are plenty of Lesbian and Gay and Bisexual and Transgender devotees of hare-coursing. And kiddy-fiddlers, furries and necries, too.

NOSOTROS LOS GRINGOS UNIDOS JAMAS SERAMOS VENCIDOS!

Uhhhh… DHG, what exactly is wrong with zoophilia? And I mean in a way that is somehow more wrong than slaughtering and eating animals?

You ostentatiously push an anti-prejudice line, and yet you’ve just basically shat on the rights and recognition of a set of even more vulnerable sexual minorities. Hell, everyone should find child molestation reprehensible, but that doesn’t make pedophilia a mental illness, just another paraphilia that individuals have to find a way of dealing with: http://www.frankfisher.org/?p=62

Pedophilia, like homosexuality, emerges endlessly in a variety of societies. Just read Foucault for endless treatise on its practice (and virtue) in ancient Greece, and it is widely practiced in the arab world. It is a perfectly common part of human experience. Of course, it is utterly unacceptable in a liberal society that respects individual rights and rejects hierarchical sexual relationships, but that doesn’t make it a mental illness.

Yes, let’s all defend paedos and use clinically sane Frank Fisher to back up our arguments.

Just out of curiosity, is the front page used to illustrate this article genuine?

Have any one-legged deaf blind Muslim female lesbian mayors that speak Urdu been elected as “super mayors” yet?

The Mail will already be foaming at the mouth at such a prospect.

This is one of the most ludicrous threads I’ve ever witnessed.

A right-winger defending the rights of animal shaggers, talk of paedophilia, necrophilia and Foucault, misspelt Spanish, hare-coursing and bigotry – wow.

I dunno, I think I am just demonstrating that you guys barely even know the meaning of genuine tolerance.

You have a particular menu of sexualities that not only need to be tolerated, but respected, legitimated, equalised and made a source of pride. The rest MUST be classifed as a mental illness. No room for a legitimate difference of opinion over what is to be respected rather than merely tolerated, just an enclosed ethical system to be propagated by law.

Trewd:

You’re a twat. And that doesn’t surprise me, what does surpirse me is you Nick, I may think you’re a tiresome bore here but I’d never thought that you’d stoop so low as to perpetuate myths and try and defend animal fucking and child abuse.

I’m not pushing a tolerance line( and stop throwing around vague ideas of the ‘left’ being all tolerant so you can beat ‘us’ with it), tolerance is overrated, I don’t tolerate shit ideas and awful ways fo treating other humans.

I’m pushing the line that connecting homosexual activity with that of child sex abuse, fucking dead people and fucking horses and other beasts is horribly wrong, they are not connected at anything other than a base sexual level but anyone with intelligence will see that they are very, very different.

Basically Nick, you’re defending paedophilia under the banner of Foucalt says it is good and people used to do it in various civilizations. We used to do lots of things, don’t make it right.

I’m not surprised, you’re a libertarian aren’t you?

Seriously, you try and lecture people about genuine tolerance, which I’ve already said is overrated and in doing so you try and help perpetuate a prejudiced myth and a destructive one at that, that has been used to keep LGBT people oppressed and their sexuality labelled as subhuman.

I do not tolerate adults having sex with children, I do not tolerate humans having sex with animals and I do not tolerate people having sex with dead bodies but clearly you do?

Speaks volumes about your moral character.

Also to be clear, you’ve kinda got hung up on the use of the word mental illness, which was my effort to be as ‘nice’ as possible about cunts who have sex with either humans or animals that have no choice in the matter.

Pedophilia is defined as a psychological disorder and a mental health issue, a zoophile is at the very least an animal abuser but again it is a mental disorder. Finally, necrophilia is only carried out by people with servere mental health issues and is a rare by-product of a whole series of mental health factors that leads the person to this form of sexual expression.

Are you trying to suggest that homosexuality is a mental health issue? are you trying to wind the clock back to when LGBT people were given shock treatment or locked away or criminalised? Are you suggesting that consentual gay sex is anyway connected or of similar value as that or sex between a 40 year old man and a 5 year old girl?

Jesus wept Nick, you’re in a horrible hole here and the fact I have to outline this to you Nick is alarming at best and deeply, deeply concerning at worst.

DHG, he’s not trying to suggest that, and you *are* falling into the same trap as the rightwingers.

Leaving out the Foucault, can you find anything incorrect in this sentence? -

Pedophilia, like homosexuality, emerges endlessly in a variety of societies… It is a perfectly common part of human experience. Of course, it is utterly unacceptable in a liberal society that respects individual rights and rejects hierarchical sexual relationships

On the bestiality point, while it’s obviously gross, how is it any worse than killing and eating animals?

John B:

Yes he is John, you have to question why someone like Nick is saying that we need to show tolerance to child abusers, zoophiles and necrophiliacs if we are to show toelrance to LGBT people.

Why make that connection at all?

As for the quote you pull out and ask me if I can find anything incorrect I’ve already answered yes to that, the argument is facile, first off pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a sexuality, secondly it does not occur with the same level of regularity as homosexuality, thirdly, homosexuality, esp. gay men, have long struggled with the mis-information that they are somehow connected to child abusers.

Nick and that bit you quote perpetuates that myth and the fact you’re defending it is also pretty disgusting.

Also, the idea that fucking an animal, carrying out animal abuse, is somehow the same as killing it to eat it or to use it as clothing is as flawed as it is daft. A strange kind of moral absolutism is at play here which is deeply odd.

I’d have given you more credit that that John B.

Also, re: that awful bit you pull out and ask if I can find anything incorrect with it, which I already have, can I flag this bit:

“Pedophilia…is a perfectly common part of human experience”

No it is not, thankfully.

What bizarre lengths are being gone to here to either make out that zoophiles are just like the rest of us who eat animals (WTF) or that finding prepubescent children and babies sexually attractive “is a perfectly common part of the human experience”?

Is this really happening here? Utter madness, all in an effort to somehow equate homosexuality with mental health issues.

Disgusting.

We seem to have strayed slightly from the main driver of this news story (i.e. the extent to which the stance of the new mayor of Donie is somehow emblematic of the silent, suffering majority).

At least this is the way the Mail has framed his appointment – and given the current emphasis on dwindling resources it was perhaps inevitable that a Tory would pop up screaming look at me everybody?

I don’t know enough about Davies to say whether or not he is a genuine guy, albeit rather misguided on the value of civic activities such as gay pride events, etc.
I certainly remember marvelous summers in London when Red Ken led the GLC (anyone remember the free concerts on the Southbank? – that’s when I first saw the Smiths live).

Even so I would imagine the democratic processes in Doncaster are robust enough to withstand a maverick mayor like Davies?

@39:

I agree totally, we have strayed far off topic and not in a good way.

Can someone tell me why my posts – which asked certain people to read postings more carefully and not just attack people – are deleted while people like the juvenile potty-mouth DHG are never brought to task.

Is this a discussion forum or a vanity-press operation for a number of preferred individuals?

Sli:

Nice handbag bitch.

Seriously why you wading into this, keep it on topic or fawk off.

Response as expected; ignore the point made and insult the writer. You’re consistent I’ll give you that.

upd:
“we have strayed far off topic”

Follow your own advice

sli – Just guessing, but it was probably because they didn’t make sense or contribute to debate, were repititious, inaccurate and pointless, and failed to address anything at all. And, no, I didn’t delete them, before you ask, nor could I.

a&e charge nurse – Amen to that!

JS – I disagree of course but you’re entitled to think that. However I didn’t break any rules whereas some on here, whether or not you agree with a point they make, continually abuse people which is, in fact, against the rules

39
Jeremy Clarkson is probably closely related to Davies, they both come from Donnie and their political views represent the ‘down-to-earth. common sensical, no-nonsense, it’s what everybody thinks’ approach.

Steveb:

Good spot on the Donny connection of right-wing nutters pretending to be the voice of the people/common sense.

Sli:

You’ll notice that in this thread, all me comments have been on topic, unlike you, who came here to whinge. So either talk about this issue or fuck off.

And seriously, whinging and putting your hand up to complain to the teacher is never a good look.

Funny how ‘common sense’ policies always seem to end up costing or losing more money, while being needlessly divisive and reducing equality.

Indeed Jamie but some people seemingly don’t care about divisive or even see it as such.

Take the thread here about Bristol Council being homophobes, Richard has left a comment saying: “why can’t they fund programs that help all victims of bullying” or something to that effect.

That sums it up in a nutshell, you read a piece about funding being cut for a LGBT anti-bullying program by someone with a track record for being a bit of a bigot and your first response is, why did they have a LGBT anti-bullying program in the first place?

Do you see? That is the difference between people with a heart and a sense common purpose and the common good and those that want to draw lines in the sand everywhere and make everything a conflict.

All of your posts were on-topic? Really, so why did you acknowledge that they hadn’t been?

So; potty mouth, proven liar and, seemingly, ill equipped to read and understand other people posts; I just don’t see the point of discussing things with people like you.

Sli you cunt, I’m talking about here in this thread you chipped in on like a twat, as for other threads, who gives a fuck but here, where you stick your beak in the only time I’m off topic is dealing with your simple-minded missives.

And who says potty mouth anymore you uptight maggot? Get over it.

Also, you seem to be calling me a liar with no evidence of that and if you don’t see the point of discussing things here then fuck off to whatever hole you crawled from.

Bye now!

God you really are simple, no evidence that you lied.

see 40 & 47 which I have already written about, this proves my other point that you don’t read the posts. As for potty mouth, i think every one can see that.

If this is your level of debate I may as well discuss stuff with my dog.

Sli, you’re not even making sense now duck, you call me a liar and then say: “no evidence that you lied” and then you point to two comments that somehow prove a point that I don’t read the posts, when I think you’ll find I do as unlike you my comments in this thread have been on topic. You do know that evidence has to be based on reality, not the fevered imaginings of your own mind?

40 was in relation to Nick going mental about child abuse you twat but you’d know that if you weren’t clutching at straws.

And your obsession with potty mouth is nearly as funny as your mental capacity.

Now as you keep threatening to fuck off, I’d suggest you act like a man of your word and do it.

Bye now!

first off pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a sexuality, secondly it does not occur with the same level of regularity as homosexuality, thirdly, homosexuality, esp. gay men, have long struggled with the mis-information that they are somehow connected to child abusers.

FACT: many societies, both historically and in the developing world today, have condoned what would be classed as paedophilia in a modern western society, whether we’re talking about marrying girls off at 12 or adult men having relationships with young boys.

FACT: some disgusting bigots lie that gay men are child abusers.

Both are true. Neither are related.

John B:

Your fact as you sweetly term it makes no difference to the fact that an adult finding a 4 year old sexually attractive is a mental disorder, you can bang on about 12 year olds all you want and what we used to do but they have no bearing on the fact that pedophilia is a mental health issue.

You seem ignorant of the long term efforts to smear homosexuality as deviant and on a par with pedophilia, I’m not hence my desire to fight it’s corner.

I didn’t say I was going to fuck off, you may like being the playground bully but in the grown up world that doesn’t wash.

I don’t wish to prolong this but you seem totally incapable of reading logically so here for one last time is you (40)

“I agree totally, we have strayed far off topic ”

The “we” includes you as you wrote it (still following)

(47)”, all me comments have been on topic”

Notice the problem here.

Now, grow up, read what other people say and stop insulting people just because you disagree with them

sli,

You still here? Fuck me for someone worried about off topic you’re doing a fine job of doing exactly that, speaks volumes about you.

As I’ve said, comment 40 was in ref (if you’ve read this thread at all) to the side debate on the merits of fucking animals, dead bodies and child abuse that spiralled on. You seem to struggle with this in your pedantic efforts to try and win some kind of point, forgetting that in your sad efforts to do so, you end up looking worse.

It would be like me whinging to the teacher that you complaining about things being of topic is actually off topic and that you should just fuck off and talk to your dog.

Worry less about semantics ‘sli’ and more about not looking a right twat.

Now fuck off.

DHG, I am mostly in agreement with the substantive points you have made on this thread, but I really wish you weren’t such a swaggering, abusive arsehole. Why can’t you be civil? Rather than advising other people to worry about looking like twats, you need to mind your self. You are not as splendid in your righteous anger as you imagine. Your comments should be deleted. “We have a tight comments policy aimed at fostering constructive debate”, indeed. The internets already has one Will Rubbish, it doesn’t need another one.

Luis – it might help if the right-wing trolls weren’t so frustratingly bovine.

54
Because culture is relative it becomes spoken about as if it is less important than biological universals and it’s relativity is often used to justify ‘deviant’ behaviours/
Actually, it is our culture which binds us together and which places us on a different level to other animals. Even in societies where individualism is valued, there are core cultural beliefs and expectations.

Neil has it down, you’ll see that I only use a certain tone with certain people, mostly, if they are half-decent, the tone is normal and the debate goes on.

Oh and Luis, you were a shit holding midfielder mate…

Me:

FACT: some disgusting bigots lie that gay men are child abusers.

DHG:

You seem ignorant of the long term efforts to smear homosexuality as deviant and on a par with pedophilia, I’m not hence my desire to fight it’s corner.

Err, say what now?

“Your fact as you sweetly term it makes no difference to the fact that an adult finding a 4 year old sexually attractive is a mental disorder, you can bang on about 12 year olds all you want and what we used to do but they have no bearing on the fact that pedophilia is a mental health issue.”

You keep saying that but you don’t say why. Paedophilia is classified as a mental disorder for exactly the same reasons that homosexuality was: because it was a crime but no one could work out a way of punishing it. So they let the psychiatrists at them with the electrodes and the hormones. You can’t just appeal to authority here, DHG. Of course, any form of child molestation should be illegal and strictly punished but to call paedophilia a mental illness is to implicitly accept the politicisation of mental health (The “We’ll take any deviants/perverts/problem people off your hands” mentality).

And I know a zoophile and there is nothing “wrong” with them. They have no interest in abusing animals. In case you hadn’t noticed, animals often try to initiate sex anway, making the consent issue a bit overwrought. So why so eager to persecute them?

John, by quoting some of Nick’s text which I’ve already debunked you are not helping in seperating or making clear the vast, vast difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Nick: I don’t need to say why Nick, it is self-explanatory in the statement itself.

And again, you seem eager to tie in homosexuality and pedophilia, also, the medical profession does indeed call pedophilia a mental disorder and yes, I am more than aware that homosexuality was also wrongly labelled as such but again, your efforts at connecting the two seems in very bad faith.

Your tone also intimates that perhaps one day, like homosexuality, an adult desiring to have sex with a 3 year old child will not be deemed illegal or a mental health issue.

I doubt very much that day will come and I think anyone with even a modicum of intelligence can see that sex with a child is a long way removed from LGBT sexual activities. At least I hope so.

And to top it all off, you then dive to the rescue of zoophiles, suggesting that animals actually want to be sexually assaulted by a human! Good grief, in your desperation to fight this point you have really shown yourself to have a very squewed moral compass indeed, which is good to know for future debates.

Also Nick, a pedophile could wrongly argue, as you are that “children often try to initiate sex anway, making the consent issue a bit overwrought”, utter and quite disgusting madness Nick but glad you put it out there, your own words are very damaging.

And I am aware of the distinction that a zoophile may not actualyl sexually interact with an animla but rather just find that animal attractive or elements of it, such as the feel of its fur as attractive.

I am more concerned with humans sticking their sex organs either in or around an animals; as I have said this is a mental health issue and a cruel one at that.

“Also Nick, a pedophile could wrongly argue, as you are that “children often try to initiate sex anway, making the consent issue a bit overwrought”, utter and quite disgusting madness Nick but glad you put it out there, your own words are very damaging.”

Yeah, they might do that, and they would be wrong. A child will be harmed by an experience that an animal will not.

“Your tone also intimates that perhaps one day, like homosexuality, an adult desiring to have sex with a 3 year old child will not be deemed illegal or a mental health issue.”

I like that, “my tone”. Not my words, obviously, because if you actually read them you would see I was saying the precise opposite, that respecting the rights of children is a progressive, liberal development in human history. But you have to find someway of justifying your moral outrage, as well as your willingness to denigrate other harmless, if weird, sexual activities, so you have to impute views to me that I do not have. Which I think most people would find to be a rather more slimy and bigotted thing to do.

“I am more concerned with humans sticking their sex organs either in or around an animals; as I have said this is a mental health issue and a cruel one at that.”

Ok, what about zoophiles who just allow themselves to be penetrated by an animal then, if you are so worried about humans being the “active” participant.

And what would you say to:

“I am more concerned with humans sticking their sex organs either in or around an anus; as I have said this is a mental health issue and a cruel one at that.” You will here plenty of Christian theocrats deploying that sort of argument. Even the occasional feminist claiming that it is impossible to enjoy anal sex and therefore, participants are in the grip of false consciousness.

Nick:

Oh dear, you go on digging yourself further into this nasty little hole.

“Yeah, they might do that, and they would be wrong. A child will be harmed by an experience that an animal will not.”

That is very, very much open to debate, in most nations it is either illegal and considered a form of animal abuse, more importantly, as the human in question is fucking an animal there is no consent to be shared.

I cannot believe I am having to argue this point.

When I said tone I was being kind, your words are doing a fine job of leading you into a bizarre cul-de-sac.

Let us not forget, this side debate occured because you insisted on defending a trite comment made by the Trewd troll on the matter of marches for zoophiles, pedophiles and those that fuck the dead.

You took umbrage at my labelling of these three activites as those of the mentally ill when any medical source makes very clear that all three are indeed mental health issues.

Why you felt the need to defend Trewd’s efforts at smearing homosexuality with the same brush as those three phychological illnesses I have no idea.

Hopefully you’ll stop.

So “any medical source” tells us that some activities are still taboo, just like gaysex was – well within living memory – not so long ago.

But this site and this thread has opened our eyes to hitherto unknown bestiaries:

Bovine trolls, eh?

Does Attenborough know about their existance?

Would consensual sex with a bovine troll qualify one for electro-convulsive therapy or simply being burned at the stake?

“He used to practice animal husbandry. Until they caught him at it.”

So far no necrophiles have contributed to this debate. Too busy in the mortuary, I imagine.

I don’t agree with Trewd’s attempts to smear homosexuality, but nor do I agree with your defence by smearing other activities. Sorry if it is a little nuanced for you.

Nick you’re not nuanced, you are weird at best mate, you may not agree with Trewd’s efforts but you did a fine job of looking like you did.

And if you disagree with the medical professions diagnosis that those three sexual mores are mental health issues that’s fine but they are so, what can you do? That doesn’t make it a smear, just makes it true.

And I didn’t see you leaping to the defence of LGBT sexuality with Trewd’s smears, so I am curious how would YOU defend it in an effective way about it being connected to zoophiles, pedophiles and necrophiles?

Why should I? It is no one’s business who other people decide to screw. I don’t defend LGBT sexuality, I defend the rights of all to engage in consensual sex. And they can shout about how they like it too if they like. But thats no good reason to use government to fund a pride march.

It seems daft to me of the Mayor has stopped the funding of Gay Pride if it makes money for the town. I suppose if the town wants a loss of income then it is up to them. there is always other places that will offer the money and reap the benefits. I wonder what other events the council fund and whether these have been stopped too?

This mayor though does seem like a front for the traditional Tory Party its just that he can’t go under the name as a Tory in Donny because he wouldn’t get elected.

Nick the Zoophile:

That’s the daft libertarian in you coming out again and we all know that Libertarianism is at best a bag of tired old silly bollocks.

You see you think that it is okay for an adult to screw a child but I don’t you see, fucking animals or the dead or children is actually plenty of other people’s business, because it is a mental health issue and has far ranging repercussions.

But it seems all this prodding is at last exposing your homophobic underbelly, you sound like the rest of the Tory trolls, that funding for a repressed and oppressed community should not occur because no one else gets special treatment.

Pah! You stick to your ignorant little world view Zoophile Libertarian, parts of society that have been oppressed deserve some help in re-establishing themselves as part of our wider community and only a mean-spirited twonk would fail to see that.

Back on the thread topic: it’s always a mistake to underestimate the political influence of Doncaster IMO.

The Romans established the auxilary fort, Danum, by the Don river on the road between Lincoln and York, to quell the troublesome local tribe, the Brigantes. Much later, when Britain relied on an airborne nuclear deterrent, the V-bombers were based at the nearby airbase RAF Finningley, now privatised and renamed the Robin Hood Airport in honour of the 14th century armed robber who roamed these parts:
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/n-s/robin04.html

In the early 1970s, Doncaster was the constituency of John Barber, chancellor of the exchequer in Ted Heath’s ill-fated government 1970-74. The current MPs, Rosie Winteron and Ed Miliband, are both NewLab ministers.

John Prescott, as noted above, is a frequent visitor to the town. He was the senior minister in the department for local government and housing which presided over the inflating house-price bubble on route to the credit crunch and did nothing about it. The constituency of the housing minister 2005/08, Yvette Cooper – an economist educated at Oxford, Harvard and the LSE – is in nearby Pontefract:
http://www.housepricefacts.com/
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/graphs-average-house-price-to-earnings-ratio.php

In the visit of the Queen to the LSE last November, she asked why did no one see the financial crisis coming. But some did – see this news report from 2002:

“CHARLES GOODHART, a former member of the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee [and economics prof at the LSE], warned yesterday that the Bank is failing to take sufficient account of the house price boom in setting interest rates.

“His warning comes amid growing fears among economists that house prices, fuelled by the lowest interest rates for 38 years, are getting out of control. Yesterday, new figures showed that homeowners are borrowing record amounts against the rising value of their homes. . . ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2002/04/06/cngood06.xml

“According to Roger Bootle, head of Capital Economics, alarm bells should be ringing at the Bank of England.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/is-the-house-price-boom-an-unsustainable-bubble-653078.html

Of course, some didn’t:
http://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/users/murphya/Bubbles.pdf

My post seems to have been censored out again:

Back on the thread topic: it’s always a mistake to underestimate the political influence of Doncaster IMO.

The Romans established the auxilary fort, Danum, by the Don river on the road between Lincoln and York, to quell the troublesome local tribe, the Brigantes. Much later, when Britain relied on an airborne nuclear deterrent, the V-bombers were based at the nearby airbase RAF Finningley, now privatised and renamed the Robin Hood Airport in honour of the 14th century armed robber who roamed these parts:
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/n-s/robin04.html

In the early 1970s, Doncaster was the constituency of John Barber, chancellor of the exchequer in Ted Heath’s ill-fated government 1970-74. The current MPs, Rosie Winteron and Ed Miliband, are both NewLab ministers.

John Prescott, as noted above, is a frequent visitor to the town. He was the senior minister in the department for local government and housing which presided over the inflating house-price bubble on route to the credit crunch and did nothing about it. The constituency of the housing minister 2005/08, Yvette Cooper – an economist educated at Oxford, Harvard and the LSE – is in nearby Pontefract:
http://www.housepricefacts.com/
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/graphs-average-house-price-to-earnings-ratio.php

In the visit of the Queen to the LSE last November, she asked why did no one see the financial crisis coming. But some did – see this news report from 2002:

“CHARLES GOODHART, a former member of the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee [and economics prof at the LSE], warned yesterday that the Bank is failing to take sufficient account of the house price boom in setting interest rates.

“His warning comes amid growing fears among economists that house prices, fuelled by the lowest interest rates for 38 years, are getting out of control. Yesterday, new figures showed that homeowners are borrowing record amounts against the rising value of their homes. . . ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2002/04/06/cngood06.xml

“According to Roger Bootle, head of Capital Economics, alarm bells should be ringing at the Bank of England.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/is-the-house-price-boom-an-unsustainable-bubble-653078.html

Of course, some didn’t:
http://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/users/murphya/Bubbles.pdf

I wonder if one day you will see the irony in those words. Particularly your decision to start using name calling and lies in this discussion. Oh well.

I’m still laughing at the idea of an animal enjoying being fucked by a human that you proposed earlier.

DHG, you’re not only a swaggering, abusive arsehole, you are dishonest, unable to follow argument, and you have very poor reading comprehension. No-one in this thread claimed or implied it is “okay for an adult to screw a child”. No-one in this thread claimed paedophilia is equivalent to homosexuality (or vice versa). Get off your Shetland pony and straighten your knickers.

ukliberty:

how wrong you are, you see, as I’ve pointed out, in a thread about this Donny nob trying to pull funding you could talk about the issue, instead, trewd went off a homophobic moment, making the awful connection between homosexuality and pedephiles and then, rather than attackinf trewd’s nonsense, Nick defended it.

Exactly as you are.

What a sorry bunch spend time here.

Update on Doncaster news:

The illustrious career of David Nicholson as a chief executive in the NHS began in Doncaster – try his profile in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/sep/13/health.healthandwellbeing

“If there is a local authority in the UK with a worse public image for its child protection efforts than Haringey, in north London – widely castigated over the Baby Peter case – it is almost certainly Doncaster.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/03/doncaster-council-child-protection

“Two brothers aged 12 and 10 today admitted carrying out a brutal attack on a pair of young boys during which they tortured, robbed and sexually assaulted their victims. The brothers – who cannot be named for legal reasons – were in foster care when they lured their victims, a boy aged nine and his 11-year-old uncle, to semi-wild parkland on the edge of Edlington, a former pit village near Doncaster, South Yorkshire, on 4 April this year. . .

“It also raised fresh questions for the children’s department of Doncaster council, which was taken over by a new Westminster-appointed management team a month before the attack.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/03/brothers-plead-guilty-attack-schoolboys

DHG, you are indeed a liar and/or tragically unable to comprehend the written word or follow argument.

I hope you don’t rub off on those kids you work with.

Where have I lied you twat? Where have I been unable to comprehend an argument?

You’re making it up because your fellow Libertarian bitch got done for, now fuck off!

DHG, you probably wouldn’t be able to understand it if I explained it to you. Even if you did comprehend it, you’d lie about it.

Fundamentally you have demonstrated that you are incapable of engaging in reasonable discussion without resorting to abuse and lies.

No evidence then you idiot?

HA!

Don’t waste your time ukliberty, I’ve already proved him a liar and unable to read/understand postings, he’s the local bully. Just ignore him, that would be the kindest thing to do.

YAY! The sli goon is back, and like uklib you don’t seem to know what evidence is and just prefer to rely on bluster.

Fine by me troll.

xxxx

Right, I’m going to write to my Councillor demanding that not a penny is spent on the next Britain In Bloom contest!

Fuck off you cunt Binkstein

Go away you racist.

Its about time someone was out spoken about issues that people think
about but never say…HE is not racist he as a right to say what he thinks
if doncaster dont want him sheffield will have him!….

We are all talking about him in sheffield…GOOD ON YA!!!!

Your comment seems to be reflect that you’ve not read the post at all or the comments that followed it Robert and that on much of what he discussed, he had to backtrack because, well, he was wrong.

I Believe you are one of many people in doncaster who
wanted a bum on a seat with no mind of his own, he is
simply doing the job hes paid for, may I ask why didnt
anyone stop Mayor Winterton In his tracks when he caused
so many problems for Doncaster we are well rid of him…

We all know what we are talking about…A mayor whos
out spoken about issues in doncaster…I ask WHY
should I pay out of my taxes for a gay pride march?…

Now come on there should be a Etrosexual march for us
‘Etrosexuals’…I suppose you want one of them MPs who
take your money and run…unnecessary WASTE OF MONEY!
SPENT ON THERE OWN PERSON…Dont waste money on
a gay pride march…give the money to a childs cancer charities…

cards on the table if iam wrong please say but i get the feeling you may be gay and thats why you are chewing on this issue with the mayor and trying to type cast me my i say my own farther left my mother for a man anybody can choose who they want to love in life yet everybody is open to a opinion the mayor may seem out spoken but he is what i call old-school and we need a bit of that because doncaster is going to the dogs with child abuse and crime commited buy children like the eddlington case he may need telling from time to time but we all have to learn by our mistakes.