You don’t strike me as the type to have one set of sewing scissors let alone a spare pair Laurie.

If Amanda Platell is serious about all this immigrant reproduction shock horror scandal, I’ll chip in for her to be neutered and then deported back to Oz.

#And despite my Mediterranean-Slavic heritage, I’m fairly sure I’m one of the nice young lilywhite gels McDonagh wants to see breeding like paranoid supremacist bunnies.#

Yep, you’re probably right but I get the feeling that being middle-class is what would probably swing it with the local board of reproductive suitability. Even that nice Mr Khan from the golf club might get lucky with a fair wind behind him. I mean he’s practically one of us isn’t he? I’d certainly rather have one of his offspring contributing to my pension than one of those chavscum lowlifes…in the unlikely event that the little toerags ever contribute to anything other than the ASBO statistics. Personally, I wouldn’t let one of the little fuckers scrub my duck island.

Oy! I live in Tower Hamlets and it’s perfectly nice, thank you very much!

Although having said that…we ARE infested by human filth. Old grannies have to double-lock their doors at night and decent liberal people are ashamed to walk the streets. That’s right. We’re suffering from a demographic overload of George Galloway.

#4

Why is it relevant that the people in your unreferenced story are asylum seekers? Why does it matter that the person who was raped was white?
Are there no white people who rape? Are there no black rape survivors?

If I called you a racist, you’ll probably complain how the PC police won’t let you say what you like without being called a racist. As you’re clearly deeply racist (and proud of it?) from your comment, I don’t care. Are you a member of a fascist organisation? I couldn’t quite tell from your comment, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

binky is a daft racist, no doubt some sock puppet or BNP twonk.

Well said Tim F, he leaves comments here under others IDS, as always hiding behind fake names and what not.

Racist scum.

Well Tim, the stupid racist definately answered your question in #8

Tainted source? Just a bit and that ‘story’ is a terrible manipulation of data and has long been dis-credited because the logic is so bad, for example in the UK with a larger Somali population, they do not make up a large percentage of those committing rape; same goes for other European nations, so if, as you are suggesting in the terrible old racist way, that certain races are more apt at certain crimes, then it would show across the board.

It does not.

But why the fuck I’m trying to discuss this shit with a racist is beyond me.

May I humbly suggest an end to anonymous (including random names i.e. binky) comments on LC?

Any idea how your scheme would work out, Claude? Do you envisage some kind of registration system?

Can’t say I agree with you. There’s nowt wrong wi’ a bit of sockpuppeting.

So long as no-one claims to be Claude, why worry, Claude?

I’ve no doubt somebody is having to many babies in the world, I know here we have not got enough houses, or enough rented homes for the people.

Labour are saying we must change the way we eat, 16 years time well have no power, and anyone with a car will need to have millions. What a world we live in.

#6

The culture (he said “African”, not “black”) of the perpetrators (for “asylum-seeker”, read “new immigrant”, as opposed to “multi-cultural British”) is relevant, because of the culture-specific nature of the crime. It’s a shame that in your rush to cry “racism”, you didn’t think it through.

I only hope that “home-grown” rapists don’t go getting any ideas, which of course they are almost certainly bound to. I predict a new porn genre.

As a woman, I personally would prefer not to have male immigrants (of any colour) from even more misogynistic cultures than my allegedly enlightened own. For instance, countries where rape is done with impunity on a far larger scale than here, and the rapee is outcast, disowned or worse. That is a mindset I do not want to have to encounter in my homeland.

[11] hell, Claude my employers would have me up in front of the NMC quicker than you can say ‘quality-street’ for some of the shit I’ve said on LC – anonymity confers POSITIVE advantages when you are lorded over by the blue rinse brigade ;o)
http://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity

Just you have as many kids as you can support, Laurie. Doesn’t matter as the population of this planet’s screwed any-old-how: either the planet goes to pot with climate change, or there’s a wholesale upheaval of all societies and their norms across the world, and the ‘necessary’ massive drop in global population that some wingnut uber-greens shout for.
Or maybe we’ll all kinda muddle through, the way homo sapiens has done for millennia. Nah, that’s too much like the rational middle ground, Godammit, this is the internet where only apocalyptic scenarios thrive.

#16

I wasn’t quick to use the term “racist”. I try to use the term only when I can back it up if challenged.

If you don’t think the comment was racist, ask yourself why binky felt the need to point out that the woman who was raped was white. He didn’t say “girl”, he, didn’t even say “Finnish girl”, he said “white Finnish girl”. There’s an implication that the crime is worse because the woman is white. He’s feeding into a racist narrative about “them coming over here and raping our women”. That’s the entire point of what he’s saying.

There’s plenty more to say about why his comment was racist, but there’s that for a start.

English population is getting older every year and we need young people to fill in. This is a fact and no running from this. Now there are only two ways of dealing with it, immigration or increasing the birth rate of indigenous population.

we have to make our choices. (oh i should say, you have to make your choices, i am an immigrant, a legal one and paying good tax)

‘Now there are only two ways of dealing with it, immigration or increasing the birth rate of indigenous population.’

You are forgeting the ‘Logan’s Run’ solution: thirty years of toga parties, then euthenasia. (20 years in the book)

#19

He said “white Finnish girl” to express the fact that she was of the indiginous culture.

Now, on one level, being raped and having your clitoris cut off is a terrible thing no matter what culture you are from, so no, it shouldn’t have made a difference in our assessment of the crime.

On another level, one could argue that it is relevant that the woman was “white Finnish”, because it means it could have happened to anyone. It means that not being part of that FGM/female-subservience culture does not protect me (yes, white, British) from being personally victimised by it. If it had not been a cross-cultural crime, I would be equally distressed by it, but I would feel less threatened by it in terms of my own personal safety.

I’m still waiting for Liberal Conspiracy to publish an article entitled “30 Reasons Why Amanda Platell Is A Cunt”. I reckon it would be a very popular article. Why anyone takes seriously the views of a woman who was sacked from the Sunday Express, I simply do not know.

I’m not too sure what to think of this topic. On the one hand, we do need more young people in the UK. There’s a lot of people getting old and their pensions will have to be paid for somehow. On the other, we’ve got arguably too many people in the world as it is – so might it be better to bring in some of the young men and women from other countries to contribute to our society?

Because what happens when one is miserly about reproductive freedom is that only certain women are able to exercise it, and those women are almost inevitably the richer ones.

Would that be such a bad thing?!

Of course I agree with you…but then we are always being told that the planet cannot handle any more of us aren’t we…

Still, as a gay man who will not be fathering any children, I would be delighted for you to take my “ration” if such is ever imposed!

In ref to Claude’s comment@11, can I second that emotion please? Although I do know there is no chance of it happening.

Also binky, I don’t believe you, only a daft racist links to a BNP story that is a manipulation of data and frankly, proves nothing apart from the fact that if you think it does prove something, you’re a racist.

And just to alert you to the fact that having a non-white partner still means you can be a racist SHOCK HORROR! You are one step away from the cliche of: “I have a black friend so I can’t be racist…”

Robert:

What the tits are you talking about you mentalist?

Clarice:

My you’re an enlightened bigot aren’t you? I hope you read the Daily Fail because otherwise we’d have nothing to blame your ignorance on. You do know that white people rape don’t you and carry out genital mutilation?

Twenty years ago, a Muslim said to me “it is foolish to immigrate, it is wise to conquer”.

I don’t know that that’s a specifically Muslim notion myself. What I do know is that if I were a low-paid or unemployed non-white youth (as opposed to what I actually am, a white pensioner) I would prefer to think of myself as a member of the van of a conquering army than as a more or less unwelcome immigrant or “guest”.

I would not, were I he, accept the legitimacy of the state, whether that state be the one I was living in or the one my parents or grandparents had left for Europe… I would identify with the ummah (if I were a Muslim) or a tribe (if I were not). I would tell you that a country whose economic base had been smashed by decades of civil war was a country which was ecologically in balance. I would tell you that living to be old was unnatural and wicked. I would tell you that power is always taken and never given. I would tell you that my attitude to women (of whatever colour) is none of your business.

And I would ask you one question. In what sense would the world’s black and brown people be worse off (apart, of course, from a quisling élite in “western” countries like Mr Khan from the golf club) if all the white people died off in the night?

If it had not been a cross-cultural crime, I would be equally distressed by it

Clarice – I think you’re missing the point. Anyone can use examples of crimes to make it into a wider racial / cultural paranoia and then stir up hatred.

For example I bet there are people in non-white countries who say that middle-aged white men are mostly paedophiles because they’re the ones who turn up in the news, in some foreign country, trying to buy the local young kids.

Similarly, I bet there are places where they see Catholics as child-abusers because of the actions of some of the clergy.

The question is – are these people committing the crime because they’re white and because they’re Catholic, or does that happen to be irrelevant to the crime? Because if is relevant, then by implication all white middle-aged men and Catholic priests are guilty to a certain extent.

What binky is doing here, and you’re agreeing with, is the view that if a black person rapes a white woman, then it’s because there’s something in his black genetic make up that wants him to rape a white woman. Rather than acknowledging this is a simply a case of misogyny.

That last paragraph is what I’ve been trying and failing to say in a concise manner.

Rape is a crime and i don’t think it has to do anything with the genetic make of the man. A recent report in UK about relationship abuse found 1 out of 5 teenage girls got raped in a relationship. Now people will say well it is different but it has same emotional effect.
If a black man is involved in this crime against a white women, it gets picked up by racist people. It kind of becomes justification to undermine black community. If a white man is involved than it a another crime stat and no one is bothered.
I feel people who use these events( like one described by bikny) to justify their hatred against black community need a bit of introspection to find out why they hate black people so much. May be white man has not changed, and is same one who was happy to sell and buy slaves.

It’s certainly relevant where paedophile priests are concerned because the Catholic church first refused to believe it was happening, then covered it up and used shame to force the victims into silence.

@28 & 29 I truly didn’t read Clarice’s comment that way, and I’ve gone back and had another look to check. What I did take from it was the idea that because someone rapes and commits FGM, they must come from a female-subservience culture and thus all people (males?) from that culture are likely to a greater or lesser extent to commit rape and FGM. You might say that’s a subtle distinction from it being a black/white race issue, but I think there was something in there about two cultures rather than two races.
You could say I’m being too innocent and giving the post too much credit, of course, and you’re free to do that.

Look at the horrific crimes over the last few months, is there one thing that unites them all.

That’s right, the perpetrators were all men. Down with the phallocracy! Send all men back to the country they came from! Only let women into this country!

And of those few women that have been party to these hideous acts (Mrs Garrido, Karen Matthews, Sarah Connolly) was there not one definable characteristic among them? Yes, they were all mingers.

Only let fit women into this country! It’s the only way to get back to our traditional British values – it’d be like the days when we went off and sewed our seed in the poorer nations, but this time they’d be delivered to our front doors!

Binky, American Renaissance is white supremasicist, racialist magazine.

Again, your sources reflect badly on your prejudice.

I repeat, American Renaissance is a racist site that churns out this lop-sided racist bile, which makes you a lop-sided racist Binky.

@30 “May be white man has not changed, and is same one who was happy to sell and buy slaves.”

Isn’t that kinda racist? In the sense of making a negative judgement about a whole coloursworth of people on the basis of a crude generalisation?

I’m getting a little bit disturbed by all this racism though so I might go and read something else for a bit… All power to those who can bear to stay and oppose it though.

What if you take a like for like income tranche – looking at the level of crime between unemployed white men and unemployed black – sorry, sub-saharan African – men (Does that mean the North African Muslims are peachy, then?) What happens to those figures?

Sunny@28

This is generally going away from the point of the post, but I’m not sure about the logic in that. The issue with the Catholic clergy too often becomes the source of inappropriate jokes, but without knowing the detailed statistics for the frequency of child abusers in the general population as opposed to amongst the Catholic clergy, if it is true that there have been a disproportionately high number of cases then the logic behind this wouldn’t be that all white middle-aged men or all Catholic priests would be guilty to a certain extent, but there might be a hypothesis that the Catholic Church tended to be a temptation for repressed young men with sexually deviant tendencies to assume and abuse positions of trust and authority. A cultural problem of a certain era which has since been addressed following the willingness of people to speak out and the safeguards that have been put in place. Don’t you think that if statistics reveal that some cultures (and I’m talking about cultures and not races here) have greater problems with misogyny as with child abuse then looking at cases, as part of those statistics, is relevant and would not be simply using examples of crimes to make it into a wider racial / cultural paranoia and then stir up hatred?

#28, no that isn’t right. What it’s saying is that there’s something about the culture that makes them want to rape women. I really don’t know where you’re getting the genetic thing from. I think you’re putting words in people’s mouths, as well as presuming that anyone with any understanding at all of behavioural genetics would be so stupid as to put forward such a patently unsubstaniable argument.

It’s basic psychology, based on what is known as the Availability Heuristic (cf Daniel Kahneman) and a thing called Counter-Factual Thinking. When something unpleasant happens, how upset we feel about it, and how we reason about it causally, depends upon how easy it is to think of a counter-factual alternative where that thing wouldn’t have happened. For eg, a car accident where the driver had taken an different route to usual is more upsetting than one where s/he took the route they use every day.

While white, or culturally indiginous people may well rape and mutliate people’s genitals, British culture doesn’t have a recent history of ritualised FGM enshrined in our culture. (I’m glossing over for a minute the use of “chastity belts” back in the day, though even that was never sold as being a modification that was beneficial to the woman).

On the middle-aged white men and Catholic priest examples, people in those places where such views are held are probably quite wise to be cautious of such people, for the sake of their own protection and that of their children. There are two aspects to risk, you see: an event’s probability (which may be low) and its cost (which may be high, as in the rape/FGM example cited). I don’t mind a high risk of having my handbag nicked, but I do mind even a very low risk of having my clitoris forcibly removed for other people’s gratification.

The problem is clarice, the idiot who started this line of attack (binky) links to the BNP and a white supremacist website, so you’ll forgive some of us for presuming an air of white is right thinking is going on here.

It’s the Finns and Danes that I’m worried about. After all, they have a culture of coming over here, killing our monks, raping our nuns, and believing that unless they die in battle then they’ll go to hell.

Oh, wait, that was a long time ago.

In actual fact the ‘culture’ of Somalis is Sunni Islam which states categorically that if anyone rapes (or willingly fornicates) then they get stoned to death. If anyone’s going liberally interpret that, it’s not going to come down on the side of “Well, a little bit of rape’s okay, in moderation” That’s pretty clear to me.

Culture be damned, this man was just a cunt.

I like you DHP

Oh Binky, you’re a racist twat.

Yep, even more confirmation of the fact.

Morocco? Really? You pick the most Westernised liberal state in North Africa to sling your arrows at?

I’ve got two brothers-in-law, both Moroccans (well one’s Berber, but it’s close enough) and you’d be hard pushed to find nicer guys.

Still, nice to see the BNP looking out for gay rights for a change – I knew all those tight tops and shaven heads would rub off on you.

binky, now don’t try to justify whole slave trade because there were few people in africa who wanted it to continue.
i am sorry if i touched something very sensitive (slavery) here, but it is not a generalization in present time, it was in past. but i think there is some residue left and binky i am afraid fits the description.

The BNP don’t own the idea of racism, so you are one but that doesn’t make you a BNP supporter, it just makes you a racist.

54-
And who was happy to buy them.
All black men are rapists, slavery was promoted by africans and you say you are not racist.
hmmmm food for thought

I’d talk to them, but I’m worried about them craving my flesh.

“All my life I’ve wanted one thing – the flesh of a white woman!”

/Soul Man

Well, the difference is that MIGRATIONWATCH is chaired by a man who actually has a fucking clue what he’s talking about.

“Green was educated at Haileybury College, then a boys’ boarding school (now co-educational) near Hertford in Hertfordshire, and at Magdalene, Cambridge where he read Arabic.[1] He served with the Royal Green Jackets between 1962-1965 and joined HM Diplomatic Service in 1965, where he worked for 35 years, spending half his career in the Middle East where he served in six posts. The remainder of his service was divided between London, Paris, and Washington DC. He was Ambassador to Syria (1991-94) and then Director for the Middle East in the Foreign Office, before finally serving for four and a half years as Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. He retired in June 2000.

Since retiring, Green has devoted his time to voluntary work. He is a former Chairman of Medical Aid for Palestinians, a British charity seeking to improve health care for Palestinians both in Palestine and the diaspora in refugee camps. He is a member of the Advisory Board of the Sudan Peace Building Programme, working to rebuild relationships in that war-torn country, and is on the board of Christian Solidarity Worldwide, a human rights organisation which speaks for Christians and others around the world who are suffering persecution for their religious beliefs. He is regularly interviewed on British television and radio as a voice opposed to high levels of immigration, in his role as the founding chairman of Migration Watch.”

yet more racist nonsense, is their no limits to binky’s ridiculous spewings?

Like I said elsewhere, can I kindly ask for the moderators to stop this?

Clarice,

Just because rape is more prevalent in one country than another (and as others have pointed out, Africa shouldn’t be treated as a homogenous mass any more than Europe should – probably less so) doesn’t necessarily mean the people who migrate from that country are more likely to rape in the future. Unless the stats have changed since last I checked, recent migrants commit per person less crimes of all kinds except specific immigration offences, than the “host” population of the UK do.

Even if I accepted your argument, the logical consequence would be that to assuage your fears you would never travel to a less safe country (or even city within the UK) on holiday, because that would increase the statistical likelihood of being raped. Do you mind me asking if you’ve ever been on holiday to a city or country where more rapes are carried out than the one you currently live in?

Regardless of all that, it’s tenuous to argue that binky separates culture and race in the way your argument does. It’s pretty clear from his first comment that he doesn’t, and it’s even clearer from his later comments. After being chastised for producing a bnp link (which frankly I’m surprised hasn’t been removed) he provided a link to an American white separatist organisation – presumably he hoped less people would know who they are. Whatever organisation binky is in, he’s a nasty piece of work.

I’m with Claude!

I don’t know what is more disgusting, your racism or the fact you refuse to face up to it.

64,
that is a israeli website propaganda against iran, nothing else.
how many sane people will believe this sort of trash.

Yep, I think we’re definitely proving that LC needs more, more active moderators. I for one volunteer for the power of being able to ban Binky’s IP!

Numerous IPs one can only guess.

Killingworth,

And I would ask you one question. In what sense would the world’s black and brown people be worse off (apart, of course, from a quisling élite in “western” countries like Mr Khan from the golf club) if all the white people died off in the night?

Dear me. It really hasn’t occurred to you that we non-white folk might recognise the intrinsic value of white folk, has it?

#13. binky:

“Formerly CND and YCL and for some years a Labour Councillor in Lancaster…”

Well you make your point well. There’s certainly NEVER been any recorded instance of a Socialist activist becoming a leading light in ANY far right movement, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mussolini

“…but too dreadfully snooty to be a BNP member.”

Another EXCELLENT point. There’s certainly NEVER been any recorded instance of a Socialist activist becoming a leading light in any far right movement, while also being a “dreadfully snooty” posho. Am I right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_mosley

And – just out of interest – how did your you and your YCL comrades deal with your class snobbishness?

You are so full of shit, I’m guessing your toothbrush is stained browner than your shirts.

RSP:

Fuck off you terrible, useless troll.