Where are all the sneering cowards, like cjcjcj, Watchman, Bigot, etc? So much for this being Labour’s deathbed. Yes, the party is already in terminal decline. But the idea that millions of people are bigoted and so take offence to Brown calling Duffy a bigot, is as fanciful as eugenics.

blanco,

Sneering coward eh? Nice balanced approach to debating issues you’ve got there. Went to the Gordon Brown School of Charming People I presume… I’m also getting a bit concerned about your frame of reference – today you’ve already brought up eugenics and the Klux Klux Klan in comments, when no-one else is concerned by these issues.

So what the polls show is that whilst Labour’s core vote is not greatly diminished by this there is less chance of attracting voters from other parties, which is hardly ideal for the party (generally) third in the polls. Especially as it lost many of those voters.

Also, there is the point to consider that polls tend to be good for the leader that has been most prominent regardless of why (although I suspect there is a limit to this phenomenon), so there may actually have been a boost to Labour in Mr Brown being the main story on Wednesday. Polls, especially daily ones, are funny things.

As to having to be bigotted to taking offence at calling an old lady expressing a view with no obvious racist overtones a bigot, well that says a lot about your view of the world.

#bigotgate made no difference to Labour – it’s still friar-tucked.

Seriously, third in a General Election? Worst result since 1918.

@2 Watchman

“No obvious racist overtones”

Really? I’m not sure the old lady in questions remarks are are harmless as you seem to think. It doesn’t make her a racist, or even necessarily a bigot, but it does ring alarm bells.

There’s been a lot of sneering about liberal disdain for the put-upon “honest” working class, who might not chose their words too carefully but “cor blimey guv’nor are just saying what everyone thinks”. Hmmnnn… I wonder? Of course it’s impossible to make quick judgements on the basis of a short video clip, and we don’t (yet?) know her views in detail. But.. (ah yes there is always a but!)….

Her use of the term “flocking” is pretty suggestive isn’t it?; possibly she mis-spoke or just didn’t really express herself well – but then the same could be said of Brown perhaps? As as been said elswhere, the impression is still that the woman has bought into the “Britian is full” meme simply by the choice of words.

If anything good might come out of this whole rather tawdry episode, hopefully it will be that the question of immigration can be examined more openly, and wrested from the clutches of xenophobic bigots on the one hand, or knee-jerk open borders officionados on the other.

blanco,

Bigots come in all shape, size and sides of the political spectrum, not just the right.

A casual glance at the flood (or should i say ‘flock’?) of postings on here and CiF calling Mrs Duffy a bigot confirm that point.

48 hours after the event it is being suggested that Gordon Brown misheard the word “flocking” and thought she said “fucking”. This explanation might have had some chance of sounding believable if it hadn’t taken two days for it to be offered to us. I’m afraid it just sounds like another bit of spin and one which wasn’t suggested either here or at CiF to justify the posters calling her bigoted.

Jebus.

‘Racism’ != ‘immigrationism’

Bloody marvellous! the Great English Gentleman David Cameron won last night’s leader’s debate, it was like bring back fox hunting with a group of dogs.

Hong Kong!, the desperate Gordon Brown was trying to frighten the ‘yellow belly voters’ to vote for Labour. Yellow bellies get voting! Gordon Brown’s little joke: “Them two remind me of my two children fighting over bathtime.” He also knew the different between a woman and a man.!

Bang on! Nick Clegg done the leg work again but no one really understands what he stands for. One has to question himself whether he understands what he stands for

@4

Galen10,

“Her use of the term “flocking” is pretty suggestive isn’t it?; possibly she mis-spoke or just didn’t really express herself well – but then the same could be said of Brown perhaps?”

Not sure where you are coming from there. Flocking is hardly a perogative verb, unless you have something against birds gathering together? As the most correct verb I could think of in this context would be originating, and I am not convinced this is part of the normal Rochdale vocabulary, then flocking may well be the normal dialectual term for describing numbers of people arriving from elsewhere. I don’t speak South Lancashire, so can’t say, but unless you do I wouldn’t try making silly insinuations about the meaning of words.

Mrs Duffy’s views as expressed are not unusual (they are not mine, as I am in favour of free movement, but then I am typing this on a site that has the word ‘liberal’ in the title, and in this sense appears to live up to the title); they are however generally shouted down by the unfair use of the accusation of racism. Yet she showed no racism; if the best someone can find is the use of ‘flocking’ then I suggest you let it rest. Bigotry and racism are not nice things to say of anyone, so perhaps have some actual evidence before you start to throw insinuations around.

I cant decide if im in favour of open borders or just making myself feel morally superior to others.

Nobody is saying the lady is a racist because she used the word “flocking”. But the language is symptomatic of how the debate over immigration has been coarsened and made crude in this country. It is not true that “you can’t say anything about immigrants”. You can say anything you like that makes them sound alien and inhuman. Hague spoke of “floods”, Thatcher spoke of “swamps” and the grand-daddy of them all, Powell spoke of “rivers” (what is it with the Tories and water?). These were people with a sophisticated understanding of language and they knew exactly what they were doing. You use non-human imagery to heighten the sense of the immigrant as “other”. “Flocking” is an ugly-sounding word – it comes from our agrarian past when the birds gathering over the fields was actually quite an ominous sight. These are all ugly, threatening images. No-one ever compares immigrants to “a cloud of butterflies drifting in on a summer breeze.” The mechanics of the metaphor works just as well, but the image summoned up is a pleasant one. I say again – the lady is no bigot, but I suspect she has read and heard the language of those who are.

Don’t forget the political blogosphere has its very own mental health bigot. And guess what, ITN are employing him on election night…

http://pogsurf.blogspot.com/2010/04/should-itv-hire-bigot-paul-staines.html

I’m not sure if it made any difference or not but a lot of people are talking about it.. have a look at blamesue.com

@8 Watchman

“Bigotry and racism are not nice things to say of anyone, so perhaps have some actual evidence before you start to throw insinuations around.”

I haven’t said or insinuated any such thing about the woman, as a cursory reading of my comments would confirm. At the time of writing, all we had to go on was her statement about where E European immigrants were flocking here from. I was quite careful NOT to make generalisations about the woman herself until more was known. As plenty of others have pointed out, they found her words problematic, if not actually bigoted.

My point, expressed here in a few places was that her concern reflected what I believe to be a lot of mis-information about immigration on the part of people who haven’t informed themselves fully, and take what they read in the despicable media at face value. I suspect, although I quite accept that I can’t prove, that this would prove to be such a case. I’m sure some people think I’m wrong to think that way, and that I’m being smug or superior…. the trouble is we all know there are plenty of knee-jerk anti-immigration voices who make their minds up on just such evidence.

I’m quite happy to accept she isn’t a bigot. I’m not happy to accept your statement that the use of the term “flocking” is totally innocuous either.

If my children and other peoples children were in danger, I would attempt to rescue my children first.

Is this racist?