Hell’s teeth. Someone tell Hughes to get off the fence and make his mind up.

Southwark Green Party have stated that we will help unseat Simon Hughes if he votes:

* for a huge hike in tuition fees
* for the housing benefit reforms (which he has done so far)
* for the attack on secure tenure for social tenants

I’m not surprised his local party are agitating, as an MP representing an awful lot of social tenants, housing benefit recipients and young people his fence-sitting is doing his constituents a gross disservice.

@Tom I bet he’s really scared of the Greens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermondsey_and_Old_Southwark_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29#Election_results

He got almost 50% of the vote in Southwark, with Labour on less than 30%. The Tories are on 17% but they support fees too. You got half what the BNP got! You personally!

I bet he’s really scared of you, BNP-loser!

@Tom, what does “help unseat” mean? Would you support another party’s candidate?

Fence sitting is not an option on this issue. Somebody needs to push Hughes.

@James,

There would be a big difference between an election where the Lib Dems were relatively popular with a clearly progressive candidate, where the Greens targeted other areas so regrettably put very few resources into the constituency (unlike the BNP); and an election where the Lib Dems are unpopular and the Lib Dem candidate has voted against the interests of his contituents on both the policy his party is perhaps best known for (tuition fees) and the policies that matter most to his largest chunk of voters (housing).

In such an election we might be tempted to put some more resources into the constituency.

He ought to stick to his principles & vote against the rise in tuition fees (which from what I’ve heard quite a few Labour MPs agree with but will be voting against because they’re in opposition). Well done to his constituency party for putting pressure on him- it’s issues like this that prove to an angry grassroots LibDem member like me that I’m a member of a party that in effect is becoming 2 parties: there’s most of us members, a lot of councillors & a few of the MPs who are increasingly dismayed at some of the policies of this coalition, despite a few LibDem things getting through as well; & then there’s the LibDem ministers & their mostly right of centre supporters who are in a few ways a nice comfy fit for the Cameronites & allegedly moderate Conservatives.

Both Simon Hughes & Tim Farron can be the vanguard of the true moral heart of what the membership of the party stand for & I hope they don’t let us & other centre-lefties & social democrats down.

Maybe if Hughes gets off the fence soon on this one, Ed Miliband can get off the fence too & drag the frankly woeful Andy Burnham with him to fully get behind a Yes to AV campaign for next May’s referendum. If he’s serious about wooing left-leaning LibDems over to Labour this would be a positive & pricipled start at achieving that.

Simon Hughes is just pretending that he is agonising over the decision. He will vote with the herd. At the next election he will be unseated here in Southwark. Soon afterwards though he will find another comfortable seat in the Lords whilst his former constituents move to the embankment where they have some nice warm cardboard boxes.

7

What will it take for you to vote with your feet then Ben?

Sounds like you either need to reclaim “your” party and tell the cabal around Clegg to hop off, or decide that the party has in effect left you with no alternative, and isn’t worth staying in.

@Galen10 I’ve not been a party member very long (though have previously voted LibDem most of the time from ’97 onwards) so I’ll probably be taking the leave the party option, especially if things continue as they are over the next 3-4 months. I was open-minded about the coalition to start with, then decided to take a long-term view of it all, but even that is becoming more difficult.

In terms of activism, like some other members I know I’ve thrown myself into the non-partisan Yes To Fairer Votes campaign as for me it represents a much-needed positive change to our voting system, & is more important to me than the local council elections. I can understand an electorally wounded Labour party wanting to target quick gains in the local elections, but a shift in their real views on civil liberties, nuclear weapons, electoral reform & properly supporting our digital & green economy would bring someone like me back into the fold rather than them romping home in the local elections while deliberately ignoring the rare opportunity offered by the referendum. It would also be another good opportunity to bash the FPTP dinosaurs of the Conservative party too!

Harold Wilson ( a much-maligned former Prime Minister) used to say that Tory government ‘rebellions’ always fell safely, one vote short of a majority. Do you really think that Simon Hughes ( Lib Dem – Tory sub-contractor) will vote against this issue? What would become of that stainless and much-admired Clegg / Lib Dem credibility if he did? – not to mention the Dodo-like fate awaiting his party – if he did? Poor old Simon – no wonder his conscience is tormenting him – his political crystal (foot)ball must be looking a little unclear too!

Go on Simon, I dare you…. GROW A BACKBONE.

11

I’m not at all sure if he will vote against, but I hope he does. In the end I’m guessing his decision will hinge on whether he things he has nothing to lose by effectively splitting his party (well….”officially” splitting, as I reckon it’s pretty well fractured already).

I don’t envy him, or underestimate how hard it must be for lots of people in the LD’s, but I think more and more must see that the game just isn’t worth the candle any more. The LD’s are a busted flush, and have been since they failed to get enough out of the Tories in return for going into the Coalition.

Short of actually quitting the party Hughes, and those of like mind, should vote against this policy and act as a focus for a more sceptical approach, keeping their powder dry for the AV referendum and the next GE.

Unseat Simon Hughes?
Then vote for P.R. in May,
then we can vote Green number one and transfer to whereever,
voting for local campaigners will no longer be a waste and a chance of letting the worst one in…

Greens, UKIP and Libdems are supporting fairer votes in referendum,
sitting tory and labour MPS with split oppositions are opposing it.

‘Vote tactically’ has always been the Lib Dem mantra when touting for votes at elections in my rural neck of the woods, ( Norfolk – the webbed-fingers county). Well – what if we take them at their word ( ha! ha!) and go tactical when this AV hotch-potch comes up for auction next May? What if we all vote against AV? What will young Nick and Lib Dem party have to show for selling it’s threadbare but hungry-for-power soul to the well-heeled-devil-you-know, – except – ironically – the rejection of a half baked and poorly understood system that not even for LD’s was the preferred PR option. Pig in a poke anyone?

But, Mulligrubs
with AV PR you wont have to vote tactically,
you can vote for the best first, the second best second…
you can vote UKIP or Green first choice
without letting the **** in!

I support AV (as a step in the right direction, not as my ideal). But please let’s not call it “PR”. It’s not, and I think the distinction is useful. PR systems are designed to lead to parties being represented in at least rough proportion to their share of the vote. Neither FPTP nor AV works on any such principle.

Thank you George @16 for that. Have you ever voted – are you actually old enough? ( and I mean that sincerely and respectfully) “Best first and second best second?” By what criteria do we judge a parliamentary wannabe, as Best – or otherwise? They say anything to get your vote and agree to anything else afterwards to achieve power. One thing that AV ( we mustn;t confuse it with PR – must we?) will guarantee is government by post -election bargaining between the minorities – this should not to be confused with democracy. Yes, I know, we have such a situation now with the first past the post system – but perhaps we can learn our lesson from voting for no-one overall and forever getting a government of unprincipled opportunists – invariably singing from the Tory hymn sheet? AV will almost certainly guarantee the redundancy of party manifestos – or the need for them – yes, pig in a poke will become the norm. By the way Richard P -@ 17 You can take too many steps in the RIGHT direction – I would say one is too many but I’m just a disillusioned old backwoodsman – Years of disappointing experience displaces youthful enthusiasm as you will discover! But that’s feudal Norfolk for you and another argument altogether. Happy Christmas from turkeyland

Maybe he should have made his mind up before signing a pledge one way or the other.

@9. Galen10.

How many Labour Party members/union affiliates walked over the Iraq War?

Did they not stay and fight for the soul of their party? So should Lib Dems

The snivelling shit. Lib Dems will always now be my LAST choice of vote.

@Dilke

“How many Labour Party members/union affiliates walked over the Iraq War?”

Dunno about unions but lots in my CLP did, they didn’t all resign en masse but just didn’t turn up to meetings any more and let their membership lapse. Membership went from 220ish down to 150ish from 2003 to 2005, its only recovered since the GE and Ed was elected.

“Did they not stay and fight for the soul of their party? So should Lib Dems”

The Lib Dems who don’t agree with what Clegg and his chums are doing should leave the party. The leadership has total control, the parties supposed democratic structures are being totally ignored, there is no way the grass roots can depose Clegg. The MPs are either enjoying the trappings of power, keeping their head down so that they can someday soon enjoy the trappings of power or are too scared to put their head over the parapet. Take Mike Hancock, he spoke out and suddenly he is engulfed in scandal about allegedly employing Russian spies or allegedly hitting on vulnerable constituents.

The mass audio-visual media has consistently misrepresented student protests and tutition fee rises – but how do we tackle them? http://bit.ly/fFKWdZ

It’s not only the 2 million students who feel betrayed by the Liberal Democrats in government, but also their families.
The economy needs these young people, and the Government should support them! As the John Sergeant has publicly stated, there is money to suport students, noting that the defence budget is three times the cost of providing such support to students.
Given the financial mess CAUSED BY THE BANKS, it’s a travesty that substantial amounts of debt are being moved to individuals.
University students represent the future of the country’s economy, and it is the responsibility of the government to support them!
I became a Lib Dem voter after Tony Blair introdued tuition fees. Like the thousands of students the Government are embalming with debt, as a mother, I also feel betrayed