“Adding the 1.2 births per woman per year from muslim women, there will be 300 000+ muslims out of the then 480 000 inhabitants of that city.”
Explain to me how it’s possible for women to have 1.2 births per year? Do Muslim women 50 children over the course of their lifetime?

@1

Some have 2, others fewer. Obvious really.

This must be one of the best examples of the Righty habit of inventing facts to suit their ideology.

The hilarious thing is that a birth rate of 1.2 per woman is less than the replacement level for a population (which is around 2.4 children pew woman in a developed country). So, assuming their figures are correct, which they probably aren’t, the muslim population would be declining not increasing. But from the quotation, my guess is that instead of realising that it’s a birth rate of 1.2 children per woman over a lifetime, this blogger has got it into her head that it’s a birth rate of 1.2 children per woman per year. Wonderful proof of the stupidity of the people who belief all of this Eurabia nonsense.

There’s no inherent problem with considering Muslim demographics. Frankly, I’d be amused if someone did the same with Jews. Is there a country, Israel aside, where they constitute more than 1% of the general population?

Doubtless, though, the emailer was a fanatic or a troll. 1.2 babies a year would be an impressive reproductive feat but it would require (a) a formidable income, (b) a mansion and (c) devastating accuracy from the father.

I’d respect Johnson’s views on, well – anything a little more if he wasn’t such a revisionist himself. Previous posts that lauded Geller’s antics have been wiped, and he’s established robot.txt files to block archive.org.

Imagine if people went around saying how many Jews there were in society, and what rate new Jews are born at.

I think it was called ‘the period between 1900 and 1940′.

where am I stand on this? I was born in a Jewish Middle Eastern family, then went on about 30 years ago married an english man from Catholic back round, with a lot of help from our intelligent brain, intelligent educated common sense we decided , along with our 2 lovely teens kids to convert & become an Atheist & move on to the 21st century away from the dark ages never had it so good & happy thanks to R. Dawkins ….

a birth rate of 1.2 per woman is less than the replacement level for a population

Read it again. He says “1.2 births per woman per year“.

Which means that the average Muslim woman, between the ages of 18 and 70, gives birth around 62 times.

This episode tells you everything you need to know about Pamela Gellar.

Firstly, she receives an email containing wildly ludricrous falsehoods (see also the Muslim population of Oslo being “50%”), which indicates that the writer has become so paranoid and deranged that he has taken to stockpiling weaponry in preparation for an imminent war of armageddon.

Anyone with a semi-functioning brain would recognise that email as the work of a hopelessly deluded and possibly dangerous individual. But rather than forwarding it to the police, or at a minimum deleting it as trash, she instead posts it on her blog as being “devastating in its matter-of-factness”.

Secondly, when it begins to look bad for her, rather than recognizing the severity of her mistake and fessing up, she simply and cowardly attempts to airbrush history in her own favour.

That’s the “counter-jihad movement” in a nutshell.

The highest recorded fertility rate was around 11 per woman per lifetime, which is pretty high, but that was some crazy North American christian cult.

Muslims are from poor places and traditionally have quite conservative views on empowering women. A generation in the rich world and women will assert themselves and there’ll be less incentive to have loads of kids. All this demographic scaremongering is for morons.

Pam Gellar is scum.

Obviously the numbers in the email are nonsensical.

Anyway, google search for “Birth Rate of Jews”:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=birth+rate+of+jews#pq=birth%20rate%20of%20jews&hl=en&cp=18&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=birth+rate+of+jews&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=birth+rate+of+jews&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=6f27533496c659e0&biw=1366&bih=643

Over 1.5 million hits, not all of them from Stormfront.

@9. Left Outside: “Muslims are from poor places and traditionally have quite conservative views on empowering women.”

Quibbling. I appreciate that you are generalising and that it is true, overall, muslim migrants and settled UK immigrants are poorer than the general UK population. But not all muslims live in poor countries. The GDP per capita in some North African countries exceeds that of some countries that want to join the EU.

I’d respect Johnson’s views on, well – anything a little more if he wasn’t such a revisionist himself.

You’re giving the impression he tried to wipe that part of his history – when his conversion to sanity was very public and he explained why.

Not sure those who themselves promote a demographic race betwen different groups are in position to criticise those crazy set of numbers put forward in that e-mail.

I think there can only be one solution: have more babies. Have millions of black, brown and mixed-race babies. There comes a point when that demographic is so big that pissing them off means that the backlash is too high (I don’t mean violent backlash, but boycotts, losing votes etc).

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/8489

Charliemann,

But the point Left Outside raises is a good one–the issue is how to extract the confounding variables from the analysis.

@13,

Ha!

She is very odd with views supporting south african extremists, the EDL and various racist sites.
What is surprising is support she gets from the Jersulem post. Which I thought was more moderate in their views.

Sorry
The Jerusalem Post

You’re giving the impression he tried to wipe that part of his history – when his conversion to sanity was very public and he explained why.

To some extent he has.

The above quote is really seedy, by the way, and as my presence in the comments thread suggests I read it I’m ashamed I didn’t note that at the time.

I think there can only be one solution: have more babies. Have millions of black, brown and mixed-race babies. There comes a point when that demographic is so big that pissing them off means that the backlash is too high (I don’t mean violent backlash, but boycotts, losing votes etc).

The whole article is quite an impressive bit of race-baiting, actually.

And it’s not obvious to me that it is so different from Geller or Spencer or Phillips.

One can only imagine the reaction if Melanie Phillips were to advocate the breeding of millions of white babies.

To defend Sunny, isn’t his point that you need to have lots of minorities to realise that minorities are basically just people and not a threat.

Its categorically different to arguing “have loads of babies so our innate differences overwhelm our enemies,” its more “have loads of babies so our innate similarities overwhelm our enemies.” I’d say that is an important distinction.

Not sure those who themselves promote a demographic race betwen different groups are in position to criticise those crazy set of numbers put forward in that e-mail.

Are you really that obtuse? The difference is I don’t think that one race / group proves a threat in itself.

Bensiz – you missed out that he did a long interview in the New York Times where he explained why he hated these people and what made him change his mind.

@22: “Are you really that obtuse? The difference is I don’t think that one race / group proves a threat in itself.”

Before assenting to that as a general principle, I suggest first checking out Sharia Law and the laws in Islamic countries on apostasy and blasphemy:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Law

“In 2003 and 2004, the court [European Court of Human Rights] ruled that ‘that sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy’ (13/02/2003) ., because the sharia rules on inheritance, women rights and religious freedom violate human rights as established in the European Convention on Human Rights.”

Countries where Christianity is the predominant religious faith tend to be more tolerant of the practices of minority religious faiths than countries where Islam is the majority faith – consider the case of Malaysia, which is widely regarded as relatively tolerant among Islamic countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Malaysia

There would likely be an outcry were EU countries to apply the kind of restrictions on the practices of Islam commonly found in Islamic countries on the practices of Christianity and other minority faiths – look what happened when France introduced a ban on the wearing of the Niqab and Burqa in public places as an affront to its secular traditions.

Try this report from al-Jazeera on the enforcement of the statutory dress code in Iran:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaBoI2oKGwk

And this BBC report now on YouTube of: Traffic police regulate Iran’s dress code
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwofxdWvlXQ

Bob- what is your point? That western democracies should act like Muslim dictatorships?

@25: “Bob- what is your point? That western democracies should act like Muslim dictatorships?”

I’m saying that in responsive European democracies, an increasing percentage of a national population subscribing to Islam is very likely to increasingly influence the drafting of national laws and the extent of tolerance extended to minority religious faiths.

I’ve often related nostalgic accounts, here and elsewhere, of lunchtime conversations I used to have in the early 1970s with a Indian work colleague and friend, who was lapsed Hindu in much the way that I was a lapsed Christian.

He forecast then that Islamic countries would face extreme difficulty in making peaceful transitions to the continuing tradition of multi-party democracy that India has had since independence in 1948. His suggested insight was that as a polytheistic religion, Hinduism created a popular culture in which multiple political parties were seen as a natural extension of a practised religion populated by many rivalrous deities.

In Europe, it took the Reformation of the 16th and 17th centuries to begin the process of the secularisation of politics and government by curbing the previous monolithic power of the Catholic Church and discarding the notion of the Divine Right of Kings to rule. The Thirty Years War 1618-48 in mainland Europe was basically about different Christian sects trying to establish dominance.

Islam is still fundamentally a theocratic religion, especially as preached and promoted by the Jihadists although I readily concede that al-Qaeda and modern Jihadism probably owe more to Sayyid Qutb than to the Koran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

See too this BBC2 doc by Adam Curtis: The Power of Nightmares (Part 2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XmPJhurB0k&NR=1

Oh here we go again. BobB’s only forays away from his normal Roger Irrelevant persona are when he suddenly goes all passionately Islamohysterical.

I ike to use this when people go on about the muslim birth rate.

“In 1977 there were 170 Elvis impersonators. By 2002 there were 85,000. At that rate of growth, by 2019 1/3 of the world will be Elvis impersonators”

To defend Sunny, isn’t his point that you need to have lots of minorities to realise that minorities are basically just people and not a threat.

It would be strange if it were because that’s certainly not what he writes.

It’s one thing to criticise writers for fretting about the birth rate of minorities and the threat this poses to ethnic-European interests, but to have suggested/proposed exactly the same thing in articles yourself makes you look, well, a bit disingenuous actually.

Pammycakes always was a loon.

It’s a bit of a battle between her and Debbie Schlussel as to who can be the most insane extremist and thus get on cable TV.

Dennis the Peasant’s archives are full of their idiocy.

Perhaps a touch of reality is in order here? Did anyone here know that every rape assault in Olso where the attacker can be identified over the past 5 years has been a non-Western immigrant? Read Muslim.

It will be very interesting to see what excuses you come up with for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rHFKRwv5Y&feature=player_embedded

@27: “Oh here we go again. BobB’s only forays away from his normal Roger Irrelevant persona are when he suddenly goes all passionately Islamohysterical.”

Predicatably, more personal abuse from the Dumbos but no reasoned response to what has been posted @24 and @26 or scrutiny of the practices of those subscribing to Islamic causes.

We already have a statutory dress code in Britain – the Public Order Act 1936, introduced at that time to prevent fascist organisations parading in uniforms to intimidate, as the Nazi Sturmabteilung (Storm Troopers) did in Germany in the 1930s and members of the British Union of Fascists were doing in Britain:

Public Order Act 1936
1 Prohibition of uniforms in connection with political objects.

(1)Subject as hereinafter provided, any person who in any public place or at any public meeting wears uniform signifying his association with any political organisation or with the promotion of any political object shall be guilty of an offence:

Provided that, if the chief officer of police is satisfied that the wearing of any such uniform as aforesaid on any ceremonial, anniversary, or other special occasion will not be likely to involve risk of public disorder, he may, with the consent of a Secretary of State, by order permit the wearing of such uniform on that occasion either absolutely or subject to such conditions as may be specified in the order.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Edw8and1Geo6/1/6

Islam is a theocratic (authoritarian and totalitarian) religion by its own declared theology. As such, Islamic organisations qualify as organisations with political aims and objectives so the Public Order Act 1936 applies. Let’s apply it in Britain to Niqabs and Burqas. QED

Btw compare this from the New Testament gospel according to Mark 12:17: “And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him. ”
http://kingjbible.com/mark/12.htm

For all the aspirations and pretensions of the medieval Catholic Church – and the followers of Oliver Cromwell – Christianity is not a theorcratic religion.

The trouble with the US Political system is that everybody has a view for each group including Jews, Muslims, Christians, and what have you and they all have lobby groups. People like Geller who are clearly Jewish is using her citizenship of the US to lead groups like this while many others. Truth is America has to make sure all its citizens Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and others put America first and not the countries or communities they originated from. I am afraid the problem lies with this which allows movements on behalf of foreign governments and probably paid for by them as well. I do not why only the citizens of Israel can be dual nationals of the US while everyone else has to give theirs up !

“It will be very interesting to see what excuses you come up with for this.”

And you use a posting on you tube to verify this detail instead of looking at the official statistics of Norway. Make accusations first then back it up with crap

Oh ! Did you know about 70 years ago Europeans were killing and raping and bombing each other ? What do you think the Nazi concentration camps were about and who were its victims who their oppressors. Now you right wingers want us to forget that and make you guys appear as if you are angels !

@35: “Oh ! Did you know about 70 years ago Europeans were killing and raping and bombing each other ? What do you think the Nazi concentration camps were about and who were its victims who their oppressors. Now you right wingers want us to forget that and make you guys appear as if you are angels !”

All true and I managed to live through it in inner London. In June 1944, a V1 Flying bomb landed at one end of the road where I lived then and a V2 ballistic rocket landed at the other end in January 1945. But with the ending of the Cold War after the collapse of the Soviet Union and its empire in 1990, Europe has moved on and has no collective wish to become embroiled in the conflicts ensuing from the Islamic reformation now in progress.

Interesting, aside from an odd ranter called Jim no, no one else is going to venture an excuse for the fact that in the past 5 years, every identifiable rape assaulter has been non-Western. Read Muslim?

I guess it is hard to justify.

Jim is a pointless irrelevance because he doesn’t understand that the link is to a news report by the national broadcaster of Norway that has been uploaded to YouTube, and not fromYouTube itself.

Quite a strange approach to excuse making, but the only one offered so far.

And I guess I could tell him that long after my grandparents helped defeated the Nazis, the left-wing, the socialists, the biggest mass-murderers in history, were still mass-murdering people. Around 100 million. And I suppose I could mention that the most prolific terrorist groups in Europe have all been left-wing too.

But it has nothing to do with Oslo today and its massive problems.

The Norwegian government must take full responsibility for allowing these violent rapes of Norwegian girls to take place by exclusively non-western men because they knew 10 years ago that it was heading in this direction, and that the rape rate had exploded to higher rates per capita then New York:

“Two out of three charged with rape in Norway’s capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study. The number of rape cases is also rising steadily.”

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece

This is an approximate, recent equivalent in Britain – just read through the names of those charged:

Eight men have been charged over allegations of grooming and committing sexual activity with teenage girls in Rochdale, following a three-year investigation by police.

The men have been charged with offences including rape, paying for the sexual services of a child, trafficking a child and controlling child prostitution.

Those charged are among 26 arrested in relation to the sexual exploitation of teenage girls since 2008. The charges are based on allegations by four teenage girls from Rochdale.

The accused are . . .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jun/08/men-charged-grooming-girls-prostitution

Just this year, there has been a spate of arrests on similar charges in other places in the north of England:

Police question 10 men in child sex abuse inquiry – Men arrested in raids in Manchester, Salford and Buxton as part of vast operation against sexual exploitation of teenage girls
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jun/14/manchester-police-raid-sex-crime-gang

@38

From what I gather, all the guilty people in those cases were men. Therefore all men are rapists (or potential rapists).
Erm, QED.

@ 39

They were indeed men. Non-western immigrant men. Every one of them. Pattern there, no?

A very avoidable pattern.

But your attempt at making an excuse is noted.

Anymore?

@ 39

I am of course referring to my link that where the police admit that every rape assault in Olso where the attacker can be identified over the past 5 years has been a non-Western immigrant.

The situation in Denmark 10 years ago was almost identical to the situation in Norway, so how bad is it now? As bad as Oslo with rape assault being an exclusively non-western immigrant crime? The authorities are doing their best to prevent people finding out.

“Alarmed at last week’s police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls”

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/27877.html

“… a 1998 Justice Ministry survey on crime … found that immigrants were over-represented by an average of 46 per cent. In addition, the recent publication of a report from the Copenhagen police shows that 47.5 per cent of prisoners on remand for serious crimes such as murder, attempted murder and rape come from immigrant backgrounds.”

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/28210.html

@39: “From what I gather, all the guilty people in those cases were men. Therefore all men are rapists (or potential rapists).”

C’mon. They are are all human, therefore etc.

IMO it is illuminating if one particular social group – as characterised by ethnicity, religion, locality etc – are especially associated with a particular variety of crime – just as the Mafia network has become associated with criminal rackets in drugs, gambling and trafficking for prostitution.

It is not normally regarded as untoward to connect the Mafia with the criminal operations run by the Mafioso. Few regard the Godfather movies as a manifestation of prejudice.

Try to focus on the documented connections between particular social goups and particular crimes – because that is what we really need to worry about.

Really? No one? The silence is deafening.

I am really intrigued now if you guys really didn’t know this horrific fact (and there are more like it) or if you knew and just hoped no one else did.

The silence is either shock or, if you will, a muted form of duplictiousness, that of omission.

It is a pretty shocking statistic.

@43. TS – Perhaps it’s because the actual report from the police
https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_vedlegg/oslo/Vedlegg_1309.pdf
states on page 52 that the proportion of perpetrators of Norwegian descent accounted for 34.9%; 13.8% from elsewhere in Europe; 19.7% from Africa; 15.1% from the Middle East; 14.1% from Asia and 2% from the Americas.

The media producing misleading statements with others piggy-backing off them without checking the original sources until it becomes accepted fact – gosh who’d have thunk it?

“Which means that the average Muslim woman, between the ages of 18 and 70, gives birth around 62 times.”

Your point about birth rates is valid and the stat is obviously bullshit, but…you do know that woman can’t get pregnant when they’re 70, right?

Ah, yes, I do know that. The statistic would be fractionally less insane if it said ‘per Muslim woman of child-bearing age per year’. But it didn’t…

Sunny said “Are you really that obtuse? The difference is I don’t think that one race / group proves a threat in itself.”

Apart from whites of course. Sunny HATES whites.

FlipC,

Thanks for posting that. Strange that the news programme seems to have got all of their figures completely wrong, given that they seem to be reading the same report. Since I am not a Norwegian speaker I have no way of knowing why this might be but I do find it astonishing that they didn’t get anything right, even the number of incidents. Was there a big uproar about this in the Norwegian media at the time?

There does also still seem to be a fairly pronounced statistical relationship between being an immigrant and committing rape, even if it isn’t quite as strong as the claims made on Norwegian tv–Norwegians are 2/3 of the population in Oslo, but consistently approx. 1/3 of the perpetrators.

@49. vimothy. On the face of it immigrants do seem over-represented per population however ignoring the percentages and looking at the raw figures and the pool they’re studying comprises 189 cases for one year from an population of 500k for Oslo. Difficult to draw generalisations from that.

Sure, yeah, shouldn’t draw conclusions from one year, and should take the number of observations into account–but basic probability theory says that events E and F are independent if and only if P(E|F) = P(E), and just a look at the data in those pie charts suggests that this isn’t the case.

Perhaps these are just extremely unlikely results but the stability of the numbers over the decade would also seem to suggest otherwise. It looks like in the limit P(Rapist in Olso is Norwegian) = 0.35, or thereabouts. Of course, there are likely to be some confounding variables here, but still–I would say that the fact that the immigrant population in Oslo seems to be committing rapes at twice the rate of the Norwegian population is not a statistic that anyone should be content with.

Of course and the next step would be to discover why? For instance what’s the ratio between men and women of the various populations?

Agreed.

My Norwegian is not brilliant by any means, but the figures you cite relate overall rape statistics, and not the distinct Norwegian crime of ‘rape assault’
(extremely violent stranger rape) that this TV news report refers to (that excludes ‘other rape’ legal categories such as date rape, relationship etc)

I know that the TV translation provided is not perfect, but according the original, it says in the police report there was a total of 186 of known rape cases in 2010.

These fall into various categories, the largest one of which is assault-rape, carried out by sheer physical force, of which there were 86 cases. In 83 of these cases the perpetrator could be identified by the victim. In all 83, the attacker was described as having “non-western appearance.”

The statistic of every rape assault committed by non-western immigrants is over 5 years as well.

In this news report it is not simply the media confirming this, but senior police too – adding that most of this figure were asylum seekers.

Again, a TV news report from last year (below) shows that a senior Olso police chief confirms that of the 43 rape assaults they had investigated over the past 3 years, all of them were committed by non-western immigrants.

At 2:12 the reporter specifically asks the police chief if there had been any cases of ethnic Norwegians committing any rape assaults and she replies ‘no’.

The police chief also ventures the reasons she thinks are behind these rape assaults.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7t5ZffkA0A

So the original contention is correct. Why do you think it is happening?

@54: “Why do you think it is happening?

Islamic chastity laws put a taboo on associations outside marriage between Muslim men and women so non-Islamic women become the inevitable targets for testosterone-fuelled Muslim men in a social context of relaxed Scandinavian mores about sexual liaisons and pornography.

Compare these crime statistics from nearby Sweden:

“Immigrants are overrepresented in Sweden’s crime statistics. During the period 1997–2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were committed by people born overseas, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. Those from North Africa and the Middle East were overrepresented. . . According to a 2009 European Union study, Sweden has one of the highest rates of reported rape in Europe. . . A report by the anti immigration party Sweden Democrats in September 2010 which claimed to have compiled 114 of 253 court rulings from around the country in 2009 stated that 48% of convicted rapists in Sweden in 2009 were born abroad.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

“According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape charges.”
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

The telling factor is that we don’t find evidence of similar criminal links for Hindus, Sikhs, and Buddhists or those with ethnic Chinese ancestory.

Re Muslim men with limited outlets for their sexual impulses: what does the Koran, and the hadiths have to say about wanking? I’ve asked this on Pickled Politics before, but no-one seemed willing to answer.

For additional insights into motivating factors, perhaps we should look not to the Koran but to: Tales of One Thousand and One Nights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Thousand_and_One_Nights

And to tales of the harem, such as: Marihay Saalih: Harem Girl
http://www.haremgirlreview.com/

Well given these statistics for Norway, Sweden and Denmark and the very clear pattern, I think it is lunacy to condemn as racist anyone who wants to restrict or actually halt this type of immigration.

In fact a recent poll show that 53.7 per cent of Norwegians want a stop to immigration, while 48.7 per cent are of the opinion that Norwegian integration policy has failed.

http://www.norwaypost.no/news/growing-opposition-to-immigration-25428.html

Given what we know from above, it is not hard to see why. Rape aside, as very serious as it is, there are many other crimes that are either dominated or in massive disproportion to this same demographic, both new entrants and second generation.

Try these news reports from the mainstream press in Britain:

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh. [September 2008]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

Muslim gangs imposing sharia law in British prisons

Radical Muslim gangs are imposing a form of sharia law inside some of Britain’s prisons, a BBC investigation has found. [15 March 2010]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7428933/Muslim-gangs-imposing-sharia-law-in-British-prisons.html

Police ‘covered up’ violent campaign to turn London area ‘Islamic’

Police have been accused of “covering up” a campaign of abuse, threats and violence aimed at “Islamicising” an area of London. [12 June 2011]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8570506/Police-covered-up-violent-campaign-to-turn-London-area-Islamic.html

Try the evidence of Professor Robert Rowthorn to the House of Lords Select Committee on Economics Affairs, Session 2007-8 on the Economic Impact of Immigration:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/82ii.pdf

Rowthorn is not your stereotypical “right-winger” – as the Wiki entry for him says, “Many of his publications have a Marxist slant”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rowthorn

@54 TS – My apologies you did state you were talking about assault rape in specific, rather than rape in general. Therefore “The main difference is
assault rapes, where none of the known perpetrators were Norwegian” from the report applies.

However from the video you linked to states the majority of perpetrators were of Kurdish or African background and the report itself states “generalizations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – proves inadequate and erroneous”. Please reconcile this with your statement @37 “every identifiable rape assaulter has been non-Western. Read Muslim?”.

@55 Bob B – “ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.” To which the reply “Rubbish” can be given by anyone with more than a basic understanding of civil law or who reads the full article.

They’ve always had this power, just in the same way other religious groups have or even you and me. Any one can be an arbitrator if all parties involved in a dispute agree them and to be bound by their decision. It’s only when they can’t agree on one does it go to a magistrate.

TS,

Thanks for clarifying. I missed the distinction between “rape” and “rape assault”. The policewoman in the video you posted seems to back-up your claim pretty unambiguously.

Of course it is not the done thing to talk about the immigrant contribution to crime–unless you’re some sort of Daily Heil hack, in which case no right-thinking person will care.

@61: “To which the reply ‘Rubbish’ can be given by anyone with more than a basic understanding of civil law or who reads the full article.”

For information here, I posted the start of a news report on Sharia Courts from The Times in 2008 so complain to NI. This links to a report in The Mail in 2009:

Britain has 85 sharia courts: The astonishing spread of the Islamic justice behind closed doors
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196165/Britain-85-sharia-courts-The-astonishing-spread-Islamic-justice-closed-doors.html

You have no comments on the other news reports about Sharia law that I posted @59?

What of current reports in the news about recent events in Kashgar, western China, where resident Uighurs, who are mainly Muslim, have been engaged in violent protests about inward migration and settlement by the Han Chinese?

China says Islamic radicals were behind violence in Kashgar

The city of Kashgar is home to many Uighurs, a Turkic minority. Authorities say one of the attackers had ties to the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a group opposed to Chinese rule in west China.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-china-kashgar-20110802,0,478390.story

TS -

Where did you get the figure that “assault rapes” describe 86 cases? From this report – in cases where the perps could identified, at least – it’s 6. (See table 30 – and I will admit to relying on google translate – all the Nordic I know I’ve picked up from black metal.)

https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_vedlegg/oslo/Vedlegg_1309.pdf

@63 Bob B “so complain to NI”

They’re not the one linking to the story. They also have no legal obligation to print either truth or facts and from PCC rulings only those affected by the story can have valid complaints.

“Britain has 85 sharia courts:”

Yes so what? How many Jewish courts are there? How many Christian? As I pointed out they only have power if *all* parties agree they do. Now if one side is being intimidated into into accepting them that’s not the fault of the court, but the person intimidating them.

“You have no comments on the other news reports about Sharia law that I posted @59?”

You want me to do this? Okay Prisons – One faction dominates the micro-society and given that the population in this case are all law-breakers they have a tendency to use intimidation to enforce it. That’s never happened before has it? Oh sorry I mean that’s never been reported before has it, but this time the faction are Muslims so it gets a headline.

‘Campaign’ – What a complete non-story told from a bias. Take this:
‘”Two guys stopped me in the street and asked me why I was smoking,” he said. “I just carried on, and before I knew another dozen guys came and jumped me. The next thing I knew, I was waking up in hospital.”‘
which is turned into “attacked by a mob in Cannon Street Road, Shadwell, for smoking during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan”

At what point was Ramadan mentioned during the victim’s statement?

Try “saying he was forced out of his job for complaining that Muslim pupils were engaging in racist and anti-Semitic bullying and saying they supported terrorism”

So was that the pupils saying they supported terrorism or the teacher saying that the pupils supported terrorism?

Or “Only one of his assailants has been caught and jailed.” Oh yes clear signs of a campaign to appease Muslims as the police are normally 100% efficient in catching criminals.

It’s cherry-picking; it’s looking at the unsolved crimes that involved supposed Muslims and ignoring all the unsolved crimes that didn’t.

Finally Kashgar – one quote should do “It was not possible to independently confirm Chinese accounts.”

@65: “Yes so what? How many Jewish courts are there? How many Christian?”

There aren’t any Christian courts dedicated to dispensing “Christian” law. There is just one set of laws for England and Wales.

But the important point is that if there are already 85 Sharia courts dispensing Sharia law in civil cases, what is all this Muslim stuff about having zones in Britain where Sharia law is the only law? And why aren’t there corresponding calls for zones with Hindu law or Buddhist law?

@65: “Finally Kashgar – one quote should do “It was not possible to independently confirm Chinese accounts.”

China’s internal news has a habit of leaking – as it did with events at Tiananmen Square in June 1989. But I can make substantially the same point by citing events in Mumbai in November 2008:

“The 2008 Mumbai attacks (often referred to as November 26 or 26/11) were more than 10 coordinated shooting and bombing attacks across Mumbai, India’s largest city, by Islamic terrorists. . . The attacks, which drew widespread global condemnation, began on Wednesday, 26 November 2008 and lasted until Saturday, 29 November, killing 164 people and wounding at least 308.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_terrorist_attacks

The compounding evidence from across continents about Muslims and Islam is depressingly clear.

FlipC:

I have reviewed that report again (the second one detailing Kurds and Africans as the biggest rape assault group) and nowhere does it say “generalizations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely
Muslim – proves inadequate and erroneous.”

What it does say is:

“What characterizes the rapes is the brutal use of violence”

And the police chief goes on to describe how most of the women were in fear of their lives with knives drawn, kicking, punching and choking being used.

In both reports the police describe the ‘cultural’ differences in attitudes to women, in the first report a rape victim specifically says that her rapist said his religion allowed it.

But anyhow, Kurds are almost exclusively Sunni Muslims, and the second highest Oslo minority, and only African (as opposed to ‘North African’) listed minority, are Somalis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo#Demographics

And virtually all Somalis are Muslim, with around 0.01% of Somalia being Christian (around 1000 people.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia#Religion

No one here has said all Oslo rapists are non-western what they have had attributed to them, is violent stranger rape as being their exclusive product over the past 5 years in Oslo, and this is true.

Just as in Denmark’s capital 10 years ago we know the figure was at 68% and so high even Muslim organisations claimed to be working to address it. What is the actual figure today? Did it go on the same curve as Oslo?

Do you not agree that this is a very serious issue, and one that all Norwegians (and Danes) have a right to be concerned about without being called racist?

Ben six:

The figures were clear in the new report, and, as I said my Norwegian is far from good, but I think you can find them in the original here:

Table 3, column 3

Table 5 line 2

TS -

I’m still not sure where you’ve got your figures from. Table 30 is (roughly) titled…

Types of rape reported to the Oslo Police District 2010 with identified suspects / accused, divided by the perpetrator’s country of origin. Percent.

Assault (“overfall”) is said to be true of six cases, and, indeed, the text on page 55 reads (roughly)…

The ethnic profile varies within the different types of rape, but for all except assault rape are Norwegian offenders the largest group. Assault rapes concerns, however, only 6 conditions…

The number “86″ crops up in Table 5, but it’s said to refer to “threats/forced/fixed holding” and I don’t see why that’s specific to “assault rape”.

Oh, bugger, we’re talking at cross purposes. For some reason I’d got the impression that you were referring to 2010 alone but, yes, the video claims that 86 “assault rapes” have been reported in the last five years and, yes, that all but 3 of those were said to have been perpetrated by “non-western appear[ing]” men.

Well, yeah, if that’s true then it’s a very serious concern indeed.

@67 Page 54 of the report I linked to “Grove generaliseringer som har gitt inntrykk av at voldtektsmenn kun er utlendinger – og i hovedsak muslimer – viser seg utilstrekkelige og feilaktige”

But you were still stating an absolute “every identifiable rape assaulter has been non-Western. Read Muslim?” when the evidence as presented is that only the majority were African or Kurdish. That *may* mean the majority were Muslims and I agree that’s a serious statistic and something that needs to be addressed.

However as we’ve all been made clear you’re dealing with only a subset of rape. In essence if the victim is assaulted the odds are that it will be a non-Western attacker; however if they’re raped at a party the odds are the attacker will be a Norwegian. Is there some ‘cultural’ difference in Norwegians that means a women at a party is a valid target for rape?

Given the information and the facts I linked to, it is extremely likely that all of these ethnic groups are Muslim whereas it is extremely unlikely that any of them are not.

All rape is serious, but of course assault rapes where the woman is violently
attacked by a stranger in the street with knives, fists, kicks or choking so that she is in fear of her life naturally attracts a far higher sentence and must leave even more of a lasting impact.

The number of this type of crime has rapidly risen in the past 10 years.

The basic thread is – Assault rapes have increased, the perpetrators are immigrants the majority of which are Muslim. At which point speculation comes into play.

Consider the majority of rape in all forms appears to be party rape involving alcohol and/or drugs both of which are forbidden to Muslims. Therefore of those immigrant men who want to rape, assault rape is the most available option for them.

Note I’ve not needed to say anything about their culture towards women etc. merely that non-Muslims have a ‘safer’ and easier method of rape available to them.

No speculation at all.

I have proven with facts that it is extremely likely that all of these ethnic groups are Muslim whereas it is extremely unlikely that any of them are not.

But finally you get around to making an excuse and it is this:

Alcohol and / or drug are forbidden to Muslims.

But violent rape, apparently isn’t then, according that this line of excuse making?

Using knives, punching, kicking and choking women isn’t forbidden?

That is all OK. But alcohol and drugs? Forbidden.

It’s not an excuse it’s a different way of looking at the same facts that’s just as valid as yours.

If you have two groups starting at the same point and trying to reach the same destination and there are two routes – one easy, one hard; it’s no surprise if everyone tries to take the easy route. If, however, for some reason the easy route is banned to one group again it can’t be surprising that one group takes the easy path and the other the hard. Would anyone suggest that this group is taking the hard path because they like hardship?

One could argue that immigrants are over-represented, but again take a group of 100 people and split them into local and immigrant 60:40 then male/female as 30:30 and 30:10. Assume 10% of men are rapists and that makes 3 from each group. That’s 5% of locals and 7.5% of immigrants despite the immigrants being the minority.

Again I’m not saying this is the case, merely that there are alternative ways to look at the same statistics.