Of course, Conservatism has evolved massively over the last two centuries. It is surely unthinkable that Theresa May would even contemplate making the same mistakes as her predecessor of nearly 200 years ago. Isn’t it?

Yes, just imagine having a Government that suspended Habeas Corpus and limited the rights to free speech. Have you just not been paying attention for the last decade?

Dave Osler – Have you failed to notice Labour’s Terrorism Act was used to arrest Walter Wolfgang the 86 year old lifelong Labour member who’s only crime was to heckle the Home Secretary.

Or the woman arrested for reading out the names of the dead at the Cenotaph killed in Labour’s Iraq War. Or 90 Days Detention without charge.

Or the ID Cards. Or DNA Database – all actions of a Labour government.

The fact is we really need a proper Conservative government and not the bunch of f*^king wusses that currently lead us.

I’m a Lib Dem supporter but even I can see Labour’s “project” to destroy British values has backfired in this country and when people stand outside their homes with their whole world burned out owning just the clothes they stand in something has gone seriously wrong.

And then Ken Livingston actually tries to blame cuts when they haven’t started yet the whole place has gone nuts…

@2 – of course New Labour policies bear much of the blame for the decay of Britain’s inner cities. I write that as a Labour Party member.

But (a) they are not in government now and (b) in case you hadn’t noticed, this is a satirical piece, so the comparisons need only be broad rather than forensically exact!

Ahh, the hard-right poster comes to troll and lie here too.

Never mind that New Labour’s paternalism and right-wing impulses were not of the left.

Never mind that he claims to be LibDem, when in fact he’s far to the right of the Tories, and running hard. That he uses the language of inequality, of “values”, of the fight against empathy, about punishing people for being poor. Never mind that it’ll hurt the people who have been burnt out along with millions of others.

And of course the cuts are underway. If they are not, then this country is going to go -20% growth as a minimum, and they all need to be halted *right now*. Thanks for that argument.

Sorry, 3, that posted was aimed @2.

And you think this the op is satire? I think the appropriate phrase is “I wish”.

@2 Anon E Mouse

The fact is we really need a proper Conservative government

No we don’t.

Enough said.

The Battle of Waterloo in June 1815 finally brought to an end the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars which had started in 1793 – 22 years before. Least anyone one thinks those battles of the Napoleonic wars were pretty timid affairs compared with nowadays, not so:

“Waterloo was a 10-hour battle; therefore, there were an average of 6,100 casualties per hour of the battle.”
http://napoleonic-literature.com/WE/Casualties.html

Britain’s pioneering industrial revolution, had set back education standards:

“We have noted a substantial body of original research . . . which found that stagnant or declining literacy underlay the ‘revolution’ of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. . . Britain in 1850 was the wealthiest country in the world but only in the second rank as regards literacy levels. [Nick] Crafts has shown that in 1870 when Britain was world economic leader, its school enrolment ratio was only 0.168 compared with the European norm of 0.514 and ‘Britain persistently had a relatively low rate of accumulation of human capital’.”
Sanderson: Education, economic change and society in 1780-1870 (Cambridge UP, 1995) p.61

The monkey-hanging legend is the most famous story connected with Hartlepool. During the Napoleonic Wars a French ship was wrecked off the Hartlepool coast.

During the Napoleonic Wars there was a fear of a French invasion of Britain and much public concern about the possibility of French infiltrators and spies.

The fishermen of Hartlepool fearing an invasion kept a close watch on the French vessel as it struggled against the storm but when the vessel was severely battered and sunk they turned their attention to the wreckage washed ashore. Among the wreckage lay one wet and sorrowful looking survivor, the ship’s pet monkey dressed to amuse in a military style uniform.

The fishermen apparently questioned the monkey and held a beach-based trial.

Unfamiliar with what a Frenchman looked like they came to the conclusion that this monkey was a French spy and should be sentenced to death. The unfortunate creature was to die by hanging . .
http://thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp

The first of the reform acts to extend the franchise and remedy some of the gross abuses of the electoral system, wasn’t until 1832.

7 – oh boy, it’s Jackanory.

“7 – oh boy, it’s Jackanory”

Allow me to quote something the late Professor Sir Geoffrey Elton said in his inaugural lecture at Cambridge: The Future of the Past (1968):

Now one of the most curious things about the English, I think . . . is that they suppose themselves to be conscious of history and to be enveloped in History. They are not. They are both indifferent and ignorant as far as history is concerned. If you want a really historically conscious country you have to go either to Central Europe, where they have too much history . . . or to the United States, where they have so little of it. I think that England could do with knowing more about its past, but that’s always been so.

Quoted in Norman Davies: The Isles (1999). The late Geoffrey Elton was born in Tübingen, under the name of Gottfried Ehrenberg. He fortunately managed to reach Britain in 1939 and, in due course, became Regius Professor of Modern History at Cambridge. He was uncle to Ben Elton.

9 – tell it to my I&C History DPhil supervisor (not that I’ve seen him in a while).

Are we supposed to be taken aback or surprised that the Battle of Waterloo took place in 1815? Or that a monkey was hanged in Hartlepool? What sodding relevance has that got? Oh, I know – impart some more of your great wisdom and tell us that, good heavens, the Duke of Wellington later became a politician! And opposed the Great Reform Act! Who knew?

You’d be the worst ‘Just a Minute’ player ever.

“Are we supposed to be taken aback or surprised that the Battle of Waterloo took place in 1815?”

Suggest consulting your doctoral supervisor soon and perhaps changing career.

The riots and social unrest which followed the long Napoleonic wars were very likely stoked by the depression that followed the wars and the official moves to restore the Gold Standard at the pre-war parity:

Particularly after Napoleon’s defeat at Waterloo in 1815, which ended the Napoleonic Wars, an effort was made to return the pound back to its prewar parity at £3 17s 10.5d. (That’s three pounds, seventeen shillings, 10.5 pence. There were twenty shillings to a pound, and twelve pence to a shilling.)

You can see a few results of this decision. After a rather brisk expansion in banknotes outstanding, beginning in 1815, the amount becomes stable around £27 million. Then, it starts a decline to £18 million in 1822. This of course was the mechanism by which the pound’s value was raised back to its prewar parity. During this period, the gold bullion holdings are all over the map, from £2 million in 1815 to £10 million in 1818, back down to £4 million in 1819, up to almost £12 million in 1821, and down to £2.5 million in 1826.
http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2011/012311.html

When it came to the aftermath of WW1, we seem to have learned little from those times of the problems that ensue from restoring the Gold Standard at the pre-war parity.

Jesus. It’s like having the ladybird book of 19th century history on loop.

“Jesus. It’s like having the ladybird book of 19th century history on loop.”

You would know, wouldn’t you? Judgining by your contributions here the Ladybird books are just about right for you.

Anon E Mouse – If you’re a Lib Dem supporter shouldn’t you be saying that we need a proper Lib Dem government?

Tim J – We can all learn a great deal from history as sometimes it has a habit of repeating itself.

Isn’t Gove pushing for a greater role for history in the curriculum anyway?

13 – I’ll go one more time here. What are you trying to say? The piece is a “slightly” heavy-handed way of saying that, in the early 19th century, there was an illiberal Tory (actually Pitt-ite Whig, but let that go) Government that reacted to domestic uprisings by suspending habeas corpus and attacking freedoms of speech and associations. Things sure have changed, ho ho ho.

Why is the date of the battle of Waterloo relevant to this? Or Hartlepool hanging a monkey? Sure, part of the reason for the unrest was increased taxation (and the Corn laws) but what does the return to the Gold Standard have to do with the implied comparison with today?

It’s like that internet advert where the person reacts to conversation by spouting a string of tangentially relevant information culled from the pages of Wikipedia. Is there a pattern we’re supposed to be seeing?

15 – that’s a fine argument, and I agree entirely. But that involves explaining why the historical comparisons are relevant and apposite. Not just shoving three paragraphs of A-level standard guff down and expecting everyone to stand back and applaud.

In that vein (although I think David is slightly missing the point) the piece as a whole is thought provoking. Look at how riots were dealt with 200 years ago, what are the modern parallels? I may disagree with what the implied message is, but at least there is one.

Tim J

As is probably apparent, my formal history education stopped with grade B O-level in 1976. For my information, the governments of Lord Liverpool 1812-1827 are usually described as Tory, are they not?

And as I said before, this is openly *partisan satire*. I’m not suggesting that the suspension of habeas corpus or anything like that is seriously on the agenda. However, I fear that authoritarian measures might be.

For my information, the governments of Lord Liverpool 1812-1827 are usually described as Tory, are they not?

It’s a bit of a grey area, though you’re certainly right that that is how they are now usually referred to. There’s something of a debate as to whether the New Tory-ism started with the death of Pitt (or even before), although Pitt referred to himself as an independent Whig, or whether it started with Liverpool’s administration in 1812 (as David would seem to believe) or whether you have to look to Peel and the split in the party of 1827.

I’d go for the last, but reasonable people can reasonably disagree.

At the risk of doing a Bob B, the Conservative/Tory party has split three times in its history, and each time has been essentially over the laws of international trade.

Thats my name.

‘Never mind that New Labour’s paternalism and right-wing impulses were not of the left.’

And Gordon Brown was no true Scotsman.

Leon Wolfster – Which bit wasn’t true?

Anyone like me who thinks your tall tales aren’t credible gets smeared in your New Labour style.

I mean really how likely is it that you’ve been shot at, bombed (twice) and “ambushed” by a marauding BNP gang in ASDA because you were white (twice).

Stop taking people for fools Leon Wolfson – this is a sensible blog and since in the past you’ve claimed The Incredible Hulk was real I think you need to crawl back under whatever stone you crawled out from.

Watch out for the monsters in the bushes behind you Wolfy!!!

MMMMWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!MMMMWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!MMMMWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Steve – I am a Lib-Dem supporter but only because my lifelong party forced Gordon Brown on us and I stopped voting Labour there and then/

I just can’t vote for Cameron – too public school boy I’m afraid.

I know you shouldn’t judge him on his parent’s choice of school as Labour don’t judge the Countess toff, Harriet Harman on hers but hey.

I think the Lib Dems are great but we need discipline I’m afraid and they just aren’t going to do it…

19 – What were these 3 occasions? Presumably under Peel with the repeal of the Corn Laws in the 1840s, the occasion you mention in 1827, but when was the other split? I know There was a division at the beginning of the 20th century but it didn’t lead to a split unless I’m mistaken.

Dave

I really enjoyed this post, very thought provoking.

I’m a Philistine when it comes to history (I’ve no idea who they even were!) and I agree with above posters that it has a lot to teach us.

@16: “Why is the date of the battle of Waterloo relevant to this? Or Hartlepool hanging a monkey? Sure, part of the reason for the unrest was increased taxation (and the Corn laws) but what does the return to the Gold Standard have to do with the implied comparison with today?”

What your analysis omits is reference to the economic consequences of the Napaleonic wars and the economic causes of social unrest.

Without demand management measures (as after WW2), engagement in long wars is apt to be followed by depressions because public spending on armaments, troop deployments in foreign lands and naval patrols is cut, troops are demobbed and press-ganged sailors released ashore. Unemployment rises. Deflationary pressures were intensified by the plans to return the Pound to the Gold Standard at the pre-war parity. The obvious parallel is with what happened after WW1. The politicians of the 1920s had learned nothing from the experience of the Napoleonic wars.

The reference to the Hartlepool monkey tells us something about prevailing general knowledge and education standards outside metropolitan centres like London. The quote about schooling shows that the industrial revolution set back education standards – at a time when governments were relying on the churches and charities to provide basic schooling.

The Reform Act of 1832, to reform the franchise, was finally pushed through despite opposition from the likes of the Dukes of Wellington (hero of Waterloo) and Newcastle (Nottingham castle, which he owned, was burned down by rioters) because king William IV – an ancestor of Cameron – said he was willing to create enough supporting peers to see the legislation through the Lords. The Duke of Wellington’s comment at seeing the first new parliament – he had never seen so many bad hats before.

The point about the appalling casualty figures for the Napoleonic wars is to show how terrible those wars were – even by modern standards. The scale of casualties from one battle often wasn’t very different from the numbers killed by the A-bomb at Hiroshima.

Admiral Collingwood, whose flagship led one of the columns of ships of the line at the battle of Trafalgar in 1805, didn’t get back to England for ten years. Today, we don’t really appreciate the hardships inflicted by the Napoleonic wars.

I’m not a graduate historian but my degree class is a good as Cameron’s.

Increasingly evident the riots were provoked, the response was hampered and all eyes are taken off the crumbling economy.

2″ Walter wolfgang wasn’t arrested at the labour party conference, a police officer gave him a piece of paper (with the P.C.s name in it saying that it was up to private security who they let in) under the Stop and account form law implemented after the Stephen lawrence report, Wolfgang wasn’t detained ,like someone is if they are stop and searched, he could have left any time he wanted, the tories abolished stop and account forms (even though the Lawreence report recommended them)

This is actually a really interesting article, though clearly quite biased towards Whiggery. I wonder how the Tory politicians of that time would respond to it? I expect, unlike the current shower of sham-Tories, they’d speak their minds and put you right on a few matters.

Well, I thought the article was good and added to by Bob B. Tim J added nothing of any interest as usual.