Like any act of violence that results in a huge loss of life, one cannot remain unaffected. What concerns me though is the value seemingly attached to western lives in comparison to those in the Arab or developing parts of the world. For example 85 children, women and men were torn apart in Lybya recently. Firstly it was a one hit wonder by the media and secondly the “allies” disputed they were responsible! I might be dirgressing here but who is going to have annual rememberances for them apart from their families. There will be no worldwide heart beating for these people!. In short who gives a damn?

We are vastly indignant when there is loss of life in the west and rightly so, but we sanitize so much when it happens to others that we have become hypocrites of the highest order.

I was at work on 11 September 2001, and saw a news item while on a break. While the images were undoubtedly shocking, this was New York after all, I was more horrified by how quickly people started talking about ‘going into’ Iraq, Afghanistan, to wreak vengeance on the perpetrators. It didn’t change my world view but it did reinforce certain prejudices against imperialism and America’s aggressive foreign policy.

3000 people losing their lives is a tragedy, pure and simple, but we are expected to believe it is a bigger tragedy simply because it happened in the west.

I was driving when the news of the attack on the twin towers came on radio 4. I thought I was listening to a radio play. Didn’t believe it was true until I arrived home and saw it on TV.

As for affecting my political views, absolutely not. There have been and always will be madmen no matter of what faith or political persuasion. As terrible as 9/11 was, what happened in Iraq was unforgivable.

What has affected my political views, are not madmen, but cold calculating politicians and corporations, intent on creating ever widening inequality across the world. Now that is scary.

I was at work; I remember people were walking in and out of a meeting room where there was a TV on, trying to take it in. It certainly reinforced my view that religion is (as I think Polly Toynbee put it at the time) “a dangerous nonsense”, but I don’t know how much it affected my political world view.

(I hope the mention of religion doesn’t knock this thread off-topic. I know religion can inspire good acts as well as evil ones, and I know most religious believers are not violent extremists; I just think some of the core ideas of many religions are dangerous by their very nature. The idea that the people can be divided into chosen/not chosen, faithful/infidel, etc.; the idea that one or more ‘special’ people have supreme moral authority as the prophets or children of gods; the idea that assorted rewards and/or punishments await us after death, etc.)

The events more or less confirmed that I wouldn’t get a contract renewal, but I still count myself very, very lucky, as I’ve posted here:

http://zelo.tv/oC63Nj

unlike those who died in the WTC.

Perhaps the attack on the twin towers is a harbinger of things to come once certain extreme elements acquire nuclear capability – I’ve heard radioactive materials are stored in a shed in the former Soviet Union and can easily be purchased for a pair of Levis or a few Beatles cd’s?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEA8Q7_nEAI

[7]oh, and just as the recent riots demonstrated – nobody will see it coming.

I was in sixth form.

And, no, it didn’t really change my world view.

I was at home. Went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea, turned on the telly and while BBC News 24 was in the background I heard that “breaking news, a plane seems to have crashed into one of the Twin Towers in New York”.

It did cross my mind that there had been an attack there back in ’93 and that perhaps the two things were connected. By the time the second plane crashed into the other tower I guess there was no doubt left.

I was literally shocked, like everyone I’m sure, at the level of cold-hearted cruelty on that day. And I remember thinking that the world, politics and a series of issues (from human rights to civil liberties and xenophobia) were no longer going to stay the same.

I don’t know if anyone remembers this, but at some point the BBC were also talking of many more planes being unaccounted for – the fear was that the attacks were planned on an even grander scale.

Final thing. I also remember me and my housemates remarking at how surprising it was that the towers collapsed that quickly and directly downwards.

I too saw it live on a TV screen: at a meeting in a hotel lobby.

Like most others here, I put it down to there being extremists: and some on all sides.

Likewise 7/7 didn’t change my politics.

What did change them – was when personal friends of mine where attacked -first GBH then attempted murder. The reason, they were Muslims who’d given up their faith – apostates.

I was so shocked it could happen in my small town.
I spend several months after that researching what islamic authority figures say about apostasy. What their political views are and so on.

That’s when I concluded that Islam is at least as much of a political ideology as a religious one.

And that as a political ideology, it is, within it’s mainstream: anti-democratic, misogynist and anti-freedom of speech: and sees no problem in the use of violence and death penalties within Sharia law on the road to achieving it’s ultimate political goal: a united world, united by Sharia controlling us all.

That’s why I’m not surprised that there are 1,000s of people killed each year in grass roots Islamic terrorism. Or that islamic states kill 1,000s of their own citizens. It can all be justified by their mainstream scholars as doing what Mohammed did, and obeying Allah.
Not surprised that Islamic forums in this country openly talk about killing aspostates -that is mainstream Islam.

So there is every chance of another 9/11. And a 7/7. Like the riots, we won’t see it coming. And again it won’t be committed by poor, uneducated Muslims from the 3rd world, but by educated ones, who have lived in and experienced the west.

Sorry that was a little verbose. But I gues my political views now on 911 and 77 and Islam are unusual on LC….. but I’ve no doubt that everyone would reach the same conclusions as I have, if they did the research.

” I’ve no doubt that everyone would reach the same conclusions as I have, if they did the research.” Or indeed, similarly selective research on christianity. Confirmation bias really is an unknown concept to you, isn’t it?

I was on a plane…..Well, about to go to Edinburgh airport to get on a plane, actually. Just as I was leaving someone said “have you heard the news?”. I turned round and there were the pictures on the computer screens….

I still got on that plane. I was going home, you see, and had to be back to pick up the kids from the childminder at 6 pm.

But I would say that experience changed my life. I’m now scared of flying – which I never was before. And I realised that I couldn’t keep putting my work before my family life. I don’t know how many libcon readers realise that senior level banking, while well-paid (obviously) demands a high price: it is long hours, frequent travel and a lot of mental pressure. So 9/11 for me was a major factor in the decision process that led to me giving up banking and becoming a singing teacher.

I’ve written about this at more length here. http://bit.ly/p2vyCY

Frances

you blog article is pithy and a challenge to us all.

I was at work when it happened. At first we thought it was a plane crash, but when the second one went in I knew the World had changed and even then I knew it had changed for the worse.

I never expected the British to be sent in for revenge. I understood that America was out for revenge against Muslims, despite all the rhetoric. I suppose I knew it would all kick off at the start, but I did wonder if we would see he nuclear weapons be broken out.

In the ten years since I have really began to dislike American foreign policy and I have sometimes struggled to avoid tarring Americans with the same brush, though the Americans I meet now are mostly pretty decent, but that hatred in Bush’s eyes towards the Islamic World was not created out of thin air. There appears to be a deep uncurrent of bile among parts of America. Given that this happened perhaps it is not suprising, but America has been single handedly responsible for far, far far more deaths and destruction both post and pre 9/11.

No way do I see 9/11 as some kind of justice, nor do I think America ‘deserved’ it or anything as crass as that, but if you generate violence there is a chance that it will rebound on you.

Apathy

“” I’ve no doubt that everyone would reach the same conclusions as I have, if they did the research.” Or indeed, similarly selective research on christianity.”

Yes, of course if one does some research (selective or not) about Christianity, one is going to conclude that there are some dangerous and illiberal ideas (about abortion, homosexuality, condom use, etc.) within its mainstream. None of us would pretend otherwise. Nor would any of us jump to the conclusion that all or most Christians are therefore dangerous, illiberal loons. Can’t we acknowledge that there are some dangerous ideas within mainstream Islam too (as there clearly are), while resisting the idea that that makes every Muslim a dangerous extremist?

I must admit , like Christopher Hitchens I felt excited at the time but concerned that the forces of appeasement might destroy us form within. I

I was at work, like most people. It didn’t change my worldview much – I was aware that the planet was infested with evil-minded, murderous shits the day before as much as the day after – but I think we were all especially horrified at the sheer callousness of murdering so many people in such a vicious manner. In a just world, there’d be a special ring of Hell reserved just for those guys.

As to what came after, well, you probably know my thoughts on that. The sharp dropoff in IQs and willingness to believe all manner of idiocies was understandable then, but there’s little excuse now. I well recall being afraid to turn on the TV, in case there was some new atrocity. It was a frightening time for everyone, but it was Christmas and birthdays rolled into one for all manner of headbangers and schemers all over the world.

Not at all, really.

I’ve been in the radius of a bomb blast twice. Once in London (one of the last IRA bombs) and once in Jerusalem. Neither time did I get more than knocked off my feet and scrapes. So… I was aware of the nature of fanaticism. Heck, I even knew that the security arrangements on American internal flights was a weak spot!

And the Americans…overreacted. They’ve never had a good handle on reasonable reactions, especially since they’ve had so little actual organised terrorism domestically. (Random shooters, yes, but…not the same).

Also, could the people in this thread please differentiate between Islam and Islamism. They’re not the same.

Even if we could remove America or Jihadists from the scene would the universal propensity for political conflict or war stop – of course not, the body count grows exponentially with each new technological advancement irrespective of which ideology is driving it – new extremists would simply replace the old ones.

I’d been outside in the back garden trying to subdue a fuchsia bush, and had come back in for a few minutes’ break.

I turned the telly on (I still had one in those days) and saw these scenes of burning skyscrapers. [i]“What film is this?”[/i], I wondered, calling up Ceefax…

…to find that this was [i]real[/i].

I can’t say that I remained glued to the screen for very long. It was quite clear that something very heavy was going down, but there was nothing I could do about New York and the garden really needed doing, so I switched off after a short while.

What I [i]do[/i] remember is that I hadn’t long got online, and was on a 56K dialup connection. It was all but impossible to get into the BBC News site for hours, such was the traffic.

My feelings of numbness at what was happening were joined with a sensation of…well, no, not [i]satisfaction[/i], I can’t call it that. But whatever the feeling was, the knowledge manifesting itself before my eyes that the great Hyperpower was [i]not[/i] invulnerable in its own backyard after all was strangely encouraging in a rather bleak way.

One remembers that edition of [i]Question Time[/i] later that week, where the US ambassador got a bit of a shellacking, and the thought that, just maybe, the American establishment would ponder all that had led up to that day and realign its attitudes to the rest of the world.

Of course, we know that the opposite happened; that the US decided it was going to lash out in all directions, usually indiscriminatorily, cheered on by the armchair warriors screaming [i]“Kick ass, USA!!”[/i] and the exceptionalists, dominionists and professional flag-wavers. All the justifiable sympathy the people of the US had in September ’01 was dissipated by all that their government said and did in the months (and years) afterwards.

(Sorry for the upcocked tagging in my last post)

On the 11th of September 2001 I was in 6th form, we had heard reports of a plane hitting a tower and we wondered why it was such a big deal. Our perception from reporting was to assume that it was a light aircraft, and why that would warrant such widespread coverage and disruption to usual schedules.

Walking home later I’d see my mother, panicked, as she was walking home making some claims as to “them taking down the internet”, clearly a world where there was a lot of fear running rampant about just what was going on and how wide spread it was.

I can’t say it affected me, the events, other than through the normal feelings of disbelief. My politics were what they were at the time, and the attacks didn’t change them. If anything I feel the resultant actions by some further embedded those political feelings, affirmed them as something I truly believed in. I also was very much in the moment and so found myself agreeing with other actions that were taken on a global liberal perspective.

To me it’s been more formative on my personal politics the understanding found of how much politicians and political people will use these events and their fear to get what they want. The attack itself was less significant to me, politically, than what it forced me to see in retrospect on how little we had progressed from the days of “evil” politicians of the past and their warped methods of getting us to agree with things that are inherently wrong.

I was in Year 6. My teacher’s son was in New York and phoned him halfway through a lesson, before any of us knew, to say he was alright. The teacher came back with a face as grey as stone and, if memory serves, barely said another word all afternoon.

“Frances
you blog article is pithy and a challenge to us all.”
That is so cute. pass me the sick bag.
As for remebering 9/11, self indulgent nonsense, a little like Diana’s death. Mass hysteria unless you have a loved one involved.

Sorry
remembering

“I must admit , like Christopher Hitchens I felt excited at the time but concerned that the forces of appeasement might destroy us form within. ”
You felt excited, because of the possible revenge aspect of the event and that someone might say you cannot drop that nuke.
As it was said to the owner of Eric the bee
“You are a loony”

Before the attacks I was an atheist who respected religion.

Now I think religion is one of the main factors promoting bigotry and hatred in the world. This is not to say that more religious believers are evil — they aren’t — but more people are good in spite of religion than good because of religion.

Another LC meme seems to have been proven in this thread.

That LC’ers suspend critical faculties when it comes to Islamic terrorism.
–
A major terrorist attack is remembered – and there is no appetite to talk about the terrorists – their motivation, their history of attacks, their ideology.

Instead, most commonly people jump to a bit of America-bashing and anti-Iraq war. – that’s what-aboutery at it’s finest. (and anti-American sentiment and anti-Iraq war are two favourite pastimes on LC; that usually get loads of people chipping in -so hardly themes that deserve time on a different thread)

Image the response on LC if then thread had been about a terrorist attack by say grass root Zionists, or christians, or anti-abortionists, or any other religion.

QED – LC’ers suspend critical faculties when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

@28 Just visiting: “A major terrorist attack is remembered – and there is no appetite to talk about the terrorists – their motivation, their history of attacks, their ideology”

The comment just before your one clearly discusses the religious motivation of the terrorists. So you’re wrong.

I thought as the planes went in, ‘I hope Channel 4 doesn’t do a week long retrospective of this event in 10 years time.’ Then I thought,’ I wish this had been Zionist terrorist, so I could of said the same joke about this event just to annoy the fuck out of that JV.’

I was delivering the CRC of a small magazine, New Interventions to the printer and thought: ‘How can we cover this now?’ We had to do a single-sheet insert and stick it in each copy when the mag was printed.

My first feelings were great sympathy for those involved in the atrocity, the passengers and flight crew on the aeroplanes and the workers in the buildings, and those in and around the bomb-sites. I thought that this showed the bankruptcy of terror tactics: that, whatever the validity of the cause (not that I felt that there was any in this case, as I have never had any sympathy for Islamist ideas), it is mainly innocent people who suffer.

I was concerned that the US government, with Blair in tow, would do something stupid, which they duly proceeded to do, both immediately in Afghanistan and then in Iraq, which we know now is what bin Laden wanted them to do. I also felt that if al Qaeda was a major organisation, it would follow this up by regular actions — such as van bombs in public places — across the USA, which I kind of doubted it could do.

My biggest fear was that the atrocity would drive a bigger wedge between Muslims and the rest of humanity. This is what bin Laden & Co wanted to do, as there is nothing like a bit of persecution to get the less fervent brethren back into the frummer fold, and that is what the anti-Muslim brigade wanted as well. Sadly, this design of bin Laden has been successful.

Like most people, 9/11 and the military response simply confirmed my prejuduces: (a) Religion is something the world needs to grow out of, the sooner the better
(b) George Bush was a moron manipulated by people who had been waiting for the opportunity to invade Iraq, for business reasons, irrespective of the origin of this attack.
(c) Tony Blair was a psychopath and a liar who saw civil liberties as an archaic incumbrance to the New Labour ‘project’ who found an excuse to suspend them.
(d) Lefties are quite happy to side with psychotic racists, misogynists and homophobes when the oportunity arrises.

I was at work and first I heard of it was when I phoned a friend to check whether he wanted a football ticket for the following weekend. he didn;t want to talk football (unusual for him) and instead asked if I was watching the telly, I said no and he promptly told me that planes had hit WTC and the Pentagon and the towers had collapsed. Knowing this friend very well and his not always tasteful sense of humour I thought for a minute or two that this was a wind up. Sadly not.

The hardest thing at the time was the following Monday night, I was a Cub leader at the time and the kids wanted to talk about it. The saturation media coverage and endless speculation about what would happen next had left some of the kids very scared and confused. The usual couple of hours of noise and laughter were very different as I tried to explain things in language that 8, 9 and 10 year olds understood.

Has it changed my world view?

Not really. My views have been refined somewhat, but that just may be what 10 years of experience does to anyone. I knew that west was too aggresive in its foreign policy, I knew that there were violent extremists out there who would dreadful things and kill the innocent. What has changed is that I have even less faith in the Great British public. How it ever re-elected the government after the disaster in Iraq in particular has left me bewildered and angry.

I think though that many are a little harsh in criticising America in terms of how it remembers its dead compares to those in other countries. Remember that humans will tend to remember those with whom they have a connection. Death surrounds us. It comes to us all. My bag of a fag packet says 2-300,000 people a day die on this planet. Some pass away peacefully in their sleep, others die dreadful deaths in natural disasters, in famines, in accidents, in wars, in car crashes etc. And we cannot remember them all.

I am sure that most people on here find that there is some incident somewhere where people they have never met died and they find this far more tragic and it moves them far more than the people who probably died this morning in the droughts of East Africa. For you it may be the people that died in the Bali bombings because you went to that night club, it maybe a mountaineer who died in the Himalayers because you are a climber, for me it is the victims of Hillsborough. For many Americans it will be those in the twin towers because they are their country men and women. And while I myself find it hard to be overly moved by the whole thing I feel for those who are simply because I am a human being.

psychotic racists, misogynists and homophobes when the oportunity arrises…as opposed to siding with them most of the time. You’re such a cock.

Phil Hunt 29:

>> and there is no appetite to talk about the terrorists – their motivation,
>> their history of attacks, their ideology”
>
> The comment just before your one clearly discusses the religious
> motivation of the terrorists. So you’re wrong.

sorry, the post above is a criticism of ‘religion’ in general – it doesn’t even use the word Muslim or Islam ! It says nothing about the terrorists at all!

Phil – maybe you’re uncomfortable to find you’re agreeing with me – that in general LCers suspend critical facilities when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

Akela

You too seem so keen to not even consider the Islamc terrorists, but move your focus as rapidly elsewhere as elsewhere.

> What has changed is that I have even less faith in the Great British public.

Wow – that is sleight of hand.

I was coming home from a meeting up north when I hear it on the radio. My company failed a few months later as we provided software to banks and they just stopped buying as they struggled to recover.

I suppose that I developed less respect for the hordes of apologists who were so often in the media explaining how the perpetrators were the victims and those who were killed were at fault. It was an opportunity for the relativists as they pushed their ideas; something we are still recovering from.

@ Just Visiting

My apologies if I offended you but it’s the truth, the thread asked if it changed my world view, and my answer was, and still is no. I was perfectly aware of Islamic terrorism and that they were and are prepared to target civilians en mass to achieve their ends, I was surprised at the method they used and the scale of what they did on that occasion but then again I am only an occasional flyer and wasn’t too well versed on airline security.

All that really changed for me was my surprise how quickly the electorate went from massed protest at the action of the government to re-electing them.

I’m not really sure what else you want me to say.

Akela

> My apologies if I offended you but it’s the truth,

No I owe you one – I spoke too soon.

>I was perfectly aware of Islamic terrorism and that they were and are prepared to target civilians en mass to achieve their ends, …. I was perfectly aware of Islamic terrorism and that they were and are prepared to target civilians en mass to achieve their ends.