You may well be right but it’s a bit rich considering the extremists that you regularly share platforms with

She’s a disgrace and thick to boot.

If they’re speaking with extremists they’re not that much of a mensch…

Oh, you mean Louise Mensch. Fine.

I keenly await the “you speak with extremists” “no, you speak with extremists” thread that’s bound to follow. And, to some extent, despite the uselessness of the term “extremists”, both sides will be right.

If they’re going to speak with extremists they can’t be that much of a mensch…

Oh, you mean Louise Mensch.

I keenly await the “you speak with extremists”, “no, you speak with extremists” thread that will follow. And, to some extent, despite the uselessness of the term of “extremists”, both sides will be right.

As a Zionist Jew, I’d like to say that StandWithUs are nutballs. That is all.

Are they any worse than the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign?
A plague on both their houses I say.

Can you at least give some examples of when standwithus have intimidated Palestinian activists ( I hear it was standwithus that was attacked at soas, not the other way round) and which religious fundamentalists they supposedly work with?

PM Netanyahu of Israel is effectively accusing Mossad and Shinbet, respectively Israel’s external and internal state security agencies, of leaking Netanyahu-Barak plans to pre-emptively strike Iran, presumably so as to forewarn and thereby prevent the proposed strike:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-netanyahu-ordered-shin-bet-to-investigate-leaks-on-iran-attack-1.393464

I suspect CIA involvement as I doubt the Obama administration wants to be engaged in a new Middle East war in the run-up to the US Presidential election in November next year – Rick Perry, who is seeking the Republican nomination for the US Presidential, has come out in support of a pre-emptive strike against Iran, which is reported to hold enough enriched uranium now to make up to 4 a-bombs. Both Israel and Iran have ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

Let’s take it, provisionally that Standwithus are ‘extreme’….

Is Ben ‘Ahmadinejad didn’t deny the Holocaust’ White, of all people, the person you want trying to make the case of the prosecution in view of all the dodgy, creepy and plain evil extremists he has happily shared a platform with or apologised for?

His presence here is an embarassment to a liberal left blog. But then again, perhaps tomorrow’s liberal left does belongs to Ben and his ilk.

The attendance of a Member of Parliament at such an event is troubling, given StandWithUs’ track record of promoting extreme positions and working with disturbing allies.

Sorry but what extreme positions would these be? What disturbing allies?

The UK chair of StandWithUs disputes the international legal consensus that Settlements in the Occupied West Bank are illegal.

So we have one person who works for the British branch who holds a legal opinion you all don’t like. How precisely is this extreme?

A 2009 investigation into StandWithUs’ donors accused the group of having “a web of funders who support organisations that have been accused of anti-Muslim propaganda and encouraging a militant Israeli and U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East”.

An investigation by whom precisely? Notice this is an accusation. Not a fact. No disturbing position, no extreme views here. After all, I could accuse Sunny of being a Zionist but that wouldn’t make it true.

The group’s activists have also been accused of intimidating Palestine solidarity activists in the past.

Another accusation. Again I could say that Chaise is a supporter of South African style Apartheid. It still wouldn’t make it true. No extreme position, no extreme views here.

A StandWithUs event of the same name happening in the US this month features Itamar Marcus, an Israeli settler who features in Islamophobic film ‘Obsession’.

So freakin’ what?

Here in the UK, StandWithUs is working with religious fundamentalists, sending their national coordinator to speak at a conference promoted by those who believe that God will “curse those who curse Israel”.

A standard Jews position for the last 2500 years or so. How is this extreme?

Israel’s defenders are free to choose the allies they want – but should an MP be giving them support?

Why not? There is no evidence of anything here that anyone should get worked up about. In fact the accusation here are so weak they amount to a form of lie. There is no evidence against this group whatsoever and the OP presumably knows it.

You do realise in a democracy even MPs, yes even MPs, are allowed to stand on the platforms of people with whom you disagree? Your criticism seems to be that StandWithUs aren’t signed up to the mantra that Israel is the spawn of the devil, and the poor oppressed Palestinians driven by madness to kidnap Israeli soldiers and shell Israel unceasingly, and as such are beyond the pale. Not everyone is singed up with this Weltanschauung.

Even if they were, it’s not like the other side all smell of roses: http://hurryupharry.org/2011/11/03/the-world-still-doesn%e2%80%99t-know-about-the-psc/

What sort of an organisation would want to expose its members to twenty minutes of Louise Mensch?
She might be a very commercial author, but as a speaker and debater puerile.
Unless, like the TV programme ‘Have I Got News For You’ she has been invited for ‘sport’, then her invitation tells me enough about StandWithUs to know that I wouldn’t be interested in supporting them, standing or sitting.

Didn’t Labour invite a well known Islamic fundamentalist and renowned anti-semite who ended up being arrested here and is awaiting deportation?

By the way, the settlement issue might be a black and white case for some, but technically Israel has not broken the law as territories captured from non-sovereign states cannot be classed as ‘occupied’.

The only reason resolutions like these were passed against Israel was because of the 56 Islamic bloc of nations and their allies at the UN pushing through their agenda.

Lived in the Middle east for three years, two of them in Israel. How anyone can support the settlers is beyond me. Though there are some moderate voices within the settler movement it is clearly an attempt to expand Israel and displace Arabs, that is illegal under international law.

Many Israels dislike them; recognising they are a cause of instability. Further the settler movement is generally based in fundamentalism believing it is God’s will they are to live there. An example of this thinking is the wife of the guy that murdered Rabin. the fact that this silly stupid women is sitting with them must be uncomfortable for Cameron. read all about the nonsense they spout:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/rabin-assassin-s-wife-yigal-amir-sacrificed-himself-for-his-people-1.231675

@ 10A standard Jews position for the last 2500 years or so. How is this extreme?

Wrong , it is not a standard Jewish position for the last 2500 years. Quote your evidence, you don’t have any.

There are many Israeli who do not take this position. The settler movement annoys them.Indeed I stood with an Israeli friend, beside his Arab friend and he looked at the settlers and said – they are very stupid people they will be the end of us all.

I know I was there, you weren’t

.

The judgment of Ben White, a man who has written that Israel is directly, absolutely and totally and accurately comparable to Nazi Germany, isn’t just beneath contempt, it is malignant. That a ‘liberal’ outlet would give space to this filth is a dark sign of the times.

Ben White says he ‘understands where anti-semitism’ comes from, shills for Ahmedinijad in his holocaust denial, compares Israel to Nazi Germany, and you publish his rants about ‘extremism’

The true question this arises is why is Liberal Conspiracy giving a platform to this malignant extremist filth?

15. Pete Lee

Wrong , it is not a standard Jewish position for the last 2500 years. Quote your evidence, you don’t have any.

A word of advice son, every now and then you’re going to meet someone who knows more than you do. Someone older and wiser. Someone who will kick your arse all over the paddock if you’re stupid enough to try to argue with him. Personally I would try to be more polite if I were you. You will still get the education your teachers failed to give you, but you will look less silly.

Go and look Genesis 12:3 up and come back and apologise.

There are many Israeli who do not take this position. The settler movement annoys them.Indeed I stood with an Israeli friend, beside his Arab friend and he looked at the settlers and said – they are very stupid people they will be the end of us all.

So freakin what? It is irrelevant isn’t it?

I know I was there, you weren’t

So you had a two week package tour. Big deal. What relevance does it have to what I said?

@16: “The judgment of Ben White, a man who has written that Israel is directly, absolutely and totally and accurately comparable to Nazi Germany, isn’t just beneath contempt, it is malignant. ”

But that is just what Gerald Kaufman was saying in the speech he made in Parliament in January 2009: Israel is acting like Nazis in Gaza:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEYz00MqCx0

Frankly, the case he made was entirely credible.

@18 Wrong again

Firstly I lived on a Kibbutz for two years , went to Gaza and the West bank hardly a two week tour.

Secondly I would like to point out that many Jews recognise that the bible is not their raison d’ etre. In fact mainstream Jewish opinion rejects it.

Not too sure about your threats, you don’t appear to be a very pleasant person
Given that I am 50 I am hardly young.

”But that is just what Gerald Kaufman was saying in the speech he made in Parliament in January 2009: Israel is acting like Nazis in Gaza:”’

Indeed and he is Jewish. There is a substantial political body in Israel that is pro peace, Peace Now!, though it is less potent than it was in the eighties and nineties due to rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

However absurd, we have reached the situation where any criticism of Israel is regarded as antisemitic.

How do we know this? Because that is what Professor Larry Summers said in September 2002 when he was President of Harvard:

“But where anti-Semitism and views that are profoundly anti-Israeli have traditionally been the primary preserve of poorly educated right-wing populists, profoundly anti-Israel views are increasingly finding support in progressive intellectual communities. Serious and thoughtful people are advocating and taking actions that are anti-Semitic in their effect if not their intent. ”
http://www.harvard.edu/president/speeches/summers_2002/morningprayers.php

Therefore, no one must criticise Israel or the actions of Israeli governments. Why? Because that amounts to antisemitism, which, as we all know, is very bad. The implication, of course, is that Israeli governments can do absolutely anything they choose to, regardless of how much harm is inflicted on any gentiles, arabs, Palestinians etc etc. To criticise or complain amounts to flagrant antisemitism.

20. Pete Lee

@18 Wrong again

As we have seen, not even wrong the first time.

Firstly I lived on a Kibbutz for two years , went to Gaza and the West bank hardly a two week tour.

And how do you know I have not been living in Israel since 1963?

Secondly I would like to point out that many Jews recognise that the bible is not their raison d’ etre. In fact mainstream Jewish opinion rejects it.

Thank you. That might have been very interesting if anyone was denying it. Or even if anyone didn’t know it. As we all know it, it is less useful. To return to the point – you denied that something said in Synagogues every Saturday across the world was actually a commonplace in Jewish culture. You were wrong. I would move on if I were you.

Not too sure about your threats, you don’t appear to be a very pleasant person
Given that I am 50 I am hardly young.

Then you should know better than to make a fool of yourself by being rude to people who know so much more than you do.

Pete Lee

There is a substantial political body in Israel that is pro peace, Peace Now!, though it is less potent than it was in the eighties and nineties due to rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

There has always been a substantial pro-Peace lobby in Israel. Right from the start. It is interesting to see you correctly identify what has killed the pro-Peace Left in Israel but you still can’t see the point. Israel was driven into the arms of people like Sharon. A shame but there you go.

@23

I wouldn’t be surprised if you lived in Israel, its you who accused me of not living there.

I am not sure quoting the bible is very accurate in terms of Jewish culture, its like saying the UK is defined by the St James bible -t isn’t.

I tend to take a modern view, you appear to be a pre enlightenment genius residing just before Copernicus quoting culture is from any bible is idiotic anthropologically.

Using the word ‘wrong’ is not rude and your threat far exceded my rather mild rebuke. Having said that I am 6 foot and a black belt in Ju – Jitsu io you would have trouble doing so unless you shoot me unarmed as happened in the Intifada to Arab children.

The point about being driven into the arms of Sharon; maybe- but that does not mean they support the settlers- they don’t. They support a strong IDF but most want the settlers to be removed, indeed that is a widespread view.

Support for Sharon and the settlers is very different and this is a thread about the settlers.

24. Pete Lee

I am not sure quoting the bible is very accurate in terms of Jewish culture, its like saying the UK is defined by the St James bible -t isn’t.

Do let me know when I claim it is. What I said was the sentiment, read out in hundreds of synagogues every year, is perfectly mainstream. Which it is.

I tend to take a modern view, you appear to be a pre enlightenment genius residing just before Copernicus quoting culture is from any bible is idiotic anthropologically.

Can I ask, as this approach has not worked for you so far, do you think it is going to start now?

Using the word ‘wrong’ is not rude and your threat far exceded my rather mild rebuke.

It takes someone very previous to see my figurative term as a threat.

The point about being driven into the arms of Sharon; maybe- but that does not mean they support the settlers- they don’t. They support a strong IDF but most want the settlers to be removed, indeed that is a widespread view.

I don’t know about other people but I am not claiming they do. It is usually the Israeli haters who claim that.

Support for Sharon and the settlers is very different and this is a thread about the settlers.

I thought it was about speaking at a pro-Zionist conference.

22. Bob B

However absurd, we have reached the situation where any criticism of Israel is regarded as antisemitic.

Alas, we have also reached the situation where reasonable criticism of Israel is no longer distinguished by the Left from a monomaniacal obsession with what the Jews are doing and an utterly hypocritical double standard that ignores what Muslim States do in favour of a microscopic examination of the Jewish State.

@26: “Alas, we have also reached the situation where reasonable criticism of Israel is no longer distinguished by the Left from a monomaniacal obsession with what the Jews are doing and an utterly hypocritical double standard that ignores what Muslim States do in favour of a microscopic examination of the Jewish State.”

You are in denial again, hence the persistent whitewashing of Israel and the resort to ad hominem abuse in place of rational analysis The terrorism and atrocities perpetrated by Israelis are well-documented in books – such as Avi Shlaim: The Iron Wall Penguin Books) – as well as on the web. I have often posted links to documentation of:

The sinking of SS Patria in Haifa harbour in 1940; the terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946; the Deir Yassin massacre in 1948; the Qibya massacre in 1953; the massacres at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in 1982; the Khiam Prison in South Lebanon in 2000 and the report of Physicians for Human Rights in 2000 on the suppression of the intifada by disproportionate use of force by the IDF – stone throwing youngsters were shot in the head or thighs by Israeli sharpshooters.

Leading Israeli terrorists have been made Israel prime ministers – Begin and Shamir and Sharon was the IDF commander of the commando unit which perpetrated the Qibya massacre.

For partial confirmation, try the speech of Gerald Kaufman to Parliament in January 2009 linked @19 on Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza.

Btw I’m not of “the left” and regard the term as virtually devoid of substantive content. At various elections, as a floating voter, I’ve voted for all the mainstream parties depending on circumstances. My political roots are embedded in the speak truth unto power tradition.

Louise Mensch is developing a habit of putting her foot & mouth in it. Can someone remind me what we do with cows suffering from this affliction?

@ 25

You back track and exists in a world of simpilicities.

”I thought it was about speaking at a pro-Zionist conferenc”

Sure but Sharon and the settler movement are rather different.

Sharon’s origins lie in the Israeli Labour party, the settlers with one or two exceptions have never really been active on the left, they have always been associated with the Right

You sound like a member of the Israeli media watching group, paid to sit around and think up excuses for the Apartheid state which Israel is.

@27 – No, you’re hard right. This is evident. You’ve even to copy/pasting the same propaganda over and over, rather than addressing any argument, in your crusade to paint Jews as evil. Using a few sources, all you have, as “truth” – false appeals to authority, based on complete misreadings of the evidence for ideological reasons.

Again, thank you for your opposition to any peace process involving terrorism, especially Northern Ireland. I’m sure that the people there would be glad of your opinions on the matter.

@29 – Ahh, a three-state solution man I see. Be careful, or you’ll get your wish.

Pete Lee @ 29

think up excuses for the Apartheid state which Israel is.

How can you call Israel an ‘apartheid state’ when it gives equal voting & civil rights to Arab and Jew, has Arab MPs in the Knesset, has Arabs serving in its armed forces side by side with Jews….?

@30: “No, you’re hard right. This is evident. . . . ”

Yawn. Predictably, anyone critical of Israel and its governments is an antisemite, hard right, neo-fascist etc etc.

As reported in the news today:

French President Nicolas Sarkozy called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a “liar” in remarks to US President Barack Obama overheard by journalists.

“I can’t stand him any more, he’s a liar,” Mr Sarkozy said in French.

“You may be sick of him, but me, I have to deal with him every day,” Mr Obama replied.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15635476

@31 – Generally, it’s caused by a hated of Jews. IME.

@32 – Sarkozy also slapped down Cameron. So, all British people are slimy worms who can’t keep their hands out of other people’s business. Got it.

Or is it only Jews where the actions of a government mean the people are identikit clones?

@33:

Overcome with that paranoid feeling again?

@33 – Nope, I’m not naturally paranoid, I have to study threats and am not suitable as a primary security operator.

And I see, your view IS that Jews are identikit clones. Well then!

@35: “And I see, your view IS that Jews are identikit clones. Well then!”

Who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli PM who was trying to push along peace negotiations with the Palestinians, and why?

“Rabin assassin’s wife: Yigal Amir sacrificed himself for his people”
http://www.haaretz.com/news/rabin-assassin-s-wife-yigal-amir-sacrificed-himself-for-his-people-1.231675

I see Ben White – typically – hasn’t been back to rebut any of the points made against him, and has settled for ‘lol’-ingly quoting a post in his favour on twitter.

Quite apart from whether a self-styled liberal site ought to be giving a platform to a buddy of numerous antisemites asnd holocaust deniers, there is the question of whether it should give said platform to someone who is unwilling even to defend his own (pathetic) argument in the light of commentators’s comments.

Will ‘Liberal’ Conspiracy be having Ben’s friend Gilad Atzmon on soon too?

Shame on you.

@ 31 Not an apartheid state!!- there are roads only Jews can go down in the West bank. To move around they have to show their passes and to crosses into certain areas

there is more:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/heading-toward-an-israeli-apartheid-state-1.353942

Remember this is a Jewish paper.

@36 – Brevik as well. You’re arguing that he’s representative of White Norwegians. Typical for you.

27. Bob B

You are in denial again, hence the persistent whitewashing of Israel and the resort to ad hominem abuse in place of rational analysis The terrorism and atrocities perpetrated by Israelis are well-documented in books – such as Avi Shlaim: The Iron Wall Penguin Books) – as well as on the web. I have often posted links to documentation of:

Again you do not even see the problem because your obsession with Israel and the Jews gets in the way. So freakin’ what Bob? The terrorism and atrocities of the Palestinians and the Syrians is well documented too. But you don’t give a flying rodent’s posterior about that do you Bob? They aren’t Jews are they Bob? Again, no matter how well documented Israel’s alleged crimes are, it does not take a genius to connect those two facts. You have issues. Get help.

the report of Physicians for Human Rights in 2000 on the suppression of the intifada by disproportionate use of force by the IDF – stone throwing youngsters were shot in the head or thighs by Israeli sharpshooters.

It is ironic that as the death toll in Syria’s attempt to suppress its own Intifada passes 3,000, Bob still can’t see the dead Arabs for the Jews. How many stone throwers did Israel kill in the decades of the Intifada Bob? Anywhere near that 3,000 mark was it? Yet you can only see the Jews. You can’t see the Syrians. Why is that Bob?

38. Pete Lee

Not an apartheid state!!- there are roads only Jews can go down in the West bank. To move around they have to show their passes and to crosses into certain areas

There are no public roads in Israel that are for Jews only. You are lying Pete. Well, stating something that is not true anyway. Let’s not leap to conclusions.

As the person who actually organised the conference of supposed religious fundamentalists, I feel sorry for Ben White. Had he seen the event, he would have seen several hundred kind, gentle people simply seeking answers to big questions. Yes they believed in Israel’s right to exist and that the Jewish people, like any people, have a right to a homeland somewhere on planet earth. But as for fundamentalists, Ben was quite misinformed.
When comparing Israel to an apartheid or Nazi state, bear in mind that it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who befriended Hitler, formed an Islamic Panzer division in the Baltics and was highly instrumental in the implementation of the ovens in which 6 million Jewish men, women and little children were incinerated alive. If we in Britain had been bullied persecuted and tormented to the point of extinction for hundreds of years, maybe we’d be a little on the defensive too about what little land we had been given to live in. As far as Apartheid goes: talk to south Africans and you’ll learn that what they experienced was very different. Don’t insult the Africans who did live under an apartheid regime,by watering down their experience in comparing it to defensive measures employed against militants. the bottom line is, if Hamas and Hezbollah stop launching over 4000 rockets a year into Israel, one might be surprised at how just quickly other things will change? In 1948 it was the Palestinians who REFUSED a two state solution – not the Israelis.