In a way it’s sad to see the caveats in both of those quotes, but they have to address a wide audience, and as long as people don’t discriminate then we’re doing ok. Good on Nothing Holy About Hatred and their respondents.

Your second paragraph has gone kinda FUBAR by the way. Possibly you want “to pledge” instead “are pledging”. Or possibly even “to take a stand”; that would read better.

Good stuff, we need more olive branches being extended, Gay men and women should not really have to choose between those they love and their faith.

I thought I’d link to this

http://www.passportmagazine.com/blog/archives/16117-gay-muslim-conference-to-take-place-in-london.html

as I just happened to notice it via Twitter.

Probably a good thing, but is this “love the sinner hate the sin” type condescension?

With divorce, contraception and women having premarital sex it was society that changed, the faithful moved with the times and eventually religious leaders had to accept it. If religious homophobia wanes it will be when the preachers listen to those they preach to, not vice-versa.

@4 Given the current debate regarding women priests, and indeed the various ‘purity ring’ and quiverfull movements – I’m not sure ‘accept’ is the right word. But yes, agreed. It wasn’t really a good sign when the Catholic Church decided to tackle it’s unfortunately well earned image problem and people turning away from the faith in Ireland by sending someone over there to double down on dogma to try and browbeat them back into the pews.

Good stuff, we need more olive branches being extended, Gay men and women should not really have to choose between those they love and their faith.
Really? Is this the best that campaigning politics can be?
It all sounds really boring to me. If your gay .. fine. Just get on with it.
Why this need for EVERYONE to ”get” and be positive about your sexual orientation?
As for faith. If you don’t like what they say, don’t join.

I think there should be a space here for people to be both supportive of equality generally, but not a supporter of some of the politics around LGBT.
That’s where I find myself to be.

@ 6 damon

“Why this need for EVERYONE to ”get” and be positive about your sexual orientation?”

To be fair, the campaign doesn’t seem to ask people to be positive about homosexuality. It just asks them not to actively discriminate.

@6 Don’t join? You do realise the number one reason that people end up in their religion is that they were born and raised into it don’t you? As easy as it is for atheist me to say it’s all a bunch of cobblers and you should sack it off, it’s not quite so simple for those who value their faith. As the parasites of the ‘ex-gay’ movement are all too willing to exploit.

Good point, Cylux.

I’m not sure that we have the right to legally force people to remake their religion in our society’s image, but it’s true that the issue is bigger than just saying “Go believe in a different god then”.

@7 Chaise.

OK. They shouldn’t discriminate. Do you sit them down and explain to them that they got everything about families and raising children wrong?
Show them this article maybe?

”Male Couples Face Pressure to Fill Cradles.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/us/gay-couples-face-pressure-to-have-children.html?_r=1&ref=rachellswarns

Some might just get it. Many will not.

Cylux. You are right. But people have to stand up on their own two feet too.
If your parent’s religion is a bit crazy, you really need to distance yourself from it somewhat. If we just say that that’s too difficult, then we’re letting it slide at that end of things.

As Islam in particular has no regular hierarchy, all you can do is work locally with this or that person or imam, and for every liberal there will be at least another fundamentalist one who disagrees with the equality message.
It ends up being a bit of a waste of time really.

@10 I don’t really disagree with the position that they would be better off leaving their religion if said religion strongly clashes with their sexuality.

The main problem is that greater levels of acceptance of homosexuality tends to result in increasingly conservative homosexuals, with conservative tendencies. Hence the whole gay marriage thing, raising families, and wanting to be keen on Jesus. Which is ironic when you think about it. If we were all radical leftist fuck-the-establishment types I doubt half the battles currently raging would be going on.

@ 10 damon

“OK. They shouldn’t discriminate. Do you sit them down and explain to them that they got everything about families and raising children wrong?”

Well, they didn’t get *everything* wrong. The fact that their bigotry leads them to convince themselves that gays can’t raise kids doesn’t mean that they didn’t do a good job raising their own kids. They might be bloody excellent parents in their own right. So this is a leading question.

Would I argue with someone who said gays can’t raise kids? Sure, if I thought it was worth the candle. Why not? Free exchange of ideas and all that jazz.

Cylux: ”I don’t really disagree with the position that they would be better off leaving their religion if said religion strongly clashes with their sexuality.”

Not just them. I think it’s time that more people in the west who have origins in countries that take religion really seriuosly, started to distance themselves from their religions. It’s cultural of course, but so was it too in Ireland with their catholicism – and they have managed to move away from the ”Catholic by default” idea and decide whether or not they want to be proper full-on catholics or not.
And half the country has decided that they don’t.

I used to work with a guy whose family were in the ”Church of the Brethren”.
Very cultish fundamentalist christians, and it had been hard for him to reject it and become a ”normal” person, but he did. And I think that communities where religion is the norm should do it more too.

As for conservative homosexuals – why shouldn’t they be?
Being conservative is a pretty normal condition to be. Half the world is conservative.

Chaise. But we’re asking them to do a lot more than that. We’re asking them to make sermons about it to their congregations and put it in their theological papers and stuff. To ask them to give gay marriage and gay parenting the big thumbs up at large muslim conferences like the ”Global Peace and Unity” event they hold in London with an audience of thousands and speakers from across the Muslim world.

The Catholics also think that marriage is one of the seven ”holy sacraments” given by god – and so might find it hard to also think of gay marriages in the same way.

@ 13 damon

“But we’re asking them to do a lot more than that. We’re asking them to make sermons about it to their congregations and put it in their theological papers and stuff. ”

Asking, not telling. Do you object to people having to listen to ideas they disagree with?

And whoever “we” is in that sentence, I don’t think it applies to Nothing Holy About Hatred*. From what I’ve seen, it’s going out of its way to be anti-homophobia rather than pro-gay, for those who would make that distinction. I’m guessing the quotes from religious organisations above are sourced via NHAH: if so, it’s obviously happy to endorse quotes that carry caveats that some gay rights campaigners would find offensive.

*It’s just occurred to me what a massive fib the title of the campaign is, but oh well.