This analysis has two fatal flaws. 1) By feeding the beast you’re only helping to trash the city of Tory land. This isn’t a bad thing.

2) The Tories are not infighting on this issue, they are…aside from a few voices…in compromise mode. Backbenchers seem happy with the “promise” of an EU referendum in 2017, and Cameron will no doubt be happy that he will probably be able to support it from opposition (or whoever his successor is), or reneg on that promise if still in power.

What would keep them infighting? Give the Tory Right a reason to cause the executive problems. Go in and say you want a referendum before (or on) the day of the next General Election. No promises that can be broken, no waiting around in uncertainty. Decide now if we’re going to keep engaged or not. The backbenchers will love it, they know they could pass that bill with Labour support easily, and it would truly put the Tories in to crisis mode.

Of course you’re right, Ed’s positioning has largely taken this option off the table, it feels like an own goal by Labour and the Lib Dems tbh.

The backbenchers will love it, they know they could pass that bill with Labour support easily, and it would truly put the Tories in to crisis mode.

Why would it put them in crisis mode? Cameron would accuse Labour and Libdems of u-turning but then offer a bill on a referendum, and win it, returning him to power as the strong leader who argued for Britain’s interests.

While Cameron is leader, the only person who can win (politically) from a referendum before or at 2015 is Cameron himself.

1) Labour may have no choice.
2) The Tories are NOT in chaos any more. They are uniting around this Private Memembers Bill.
3) The Labour position is that a referendum now, or the announcement of a referendum now, is wrong. Senior figures have been careful to make sure that it is still an option. There is room to manoeuvre with the manifesto.

The Tories are NOT in chaos any more. They are uniting around this Private Memembers Bill.

ROFL.

Cameron has set his stall out that the time for a referendum is in 2017. Lib Dems and Labour wouldn’t be u-turning because they’d be saying that the problem with the referendum is 5 years of uncertainty in economically uncertain times. Best to get it out of the way if it’s going to happen.

Cameron on the other hand will be u-turning. He doesn’t want out of Europe, he’d be put in an extremely tough place of both u-turning to provide it and then either remaining silent or campaigning to stay in the EU so that negotiations on the future of the EU can take place, or he can fight *against* an EU referendum.

I’m not sure how Cameron wins, except if you believe it’s a foregone conclusion that a “Stay in the EU” camp can’t win when they have nullified one, nay…two, of the “leave EU’s” biggest arguments…the first that’ll be that the EU is not working with Britain to change how it works, it’s time to leave…and the second is that they’ll no longer be able to pretend that the “pro-EU” camp are trying to deny people their say on Europe because it was the pro-EU camp that brought the date forward!

Meanwhile more people just vote UKIP or walk away from the polls in disgust.

All three major parties showed their contempt for the public and the principle of democracy over this issue by failing to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which they’d all promised in 2005. A lot of people want a referendum, including people from Labour and the Lib Dems. It’s an issue which should transcend the usual party divisions. I have no faith in Cameron’s latest promise, but the other two parties have nothing to be proud of, quite the opposite.

Yes but sunny you haven’t any real influence in the labour PRty to call for a referendum, having only been a member for 2 and a half years, and twice having voted for other people on those last few years,

Sunny Hundal’s analysis is spot on. It would be mad for Labour to start offering referendums. Why on earth play the game the owners of the Telegraph and Mail and Murdoch want you to play?

As things stand, the conservative party has no chance in the next election. A string of would be tory prime ministers have proved beyond doubt that an anti-europe stance kills your chances of being elected in Britain (Michael Foot already showed them that, but they weren’t paying attention).

“Why on earth play the game the owners of the Telegraph and Mail and Murdoch want you to play?”

Timing.

There is going to a referendum anyway, and this has been obvious for at least 4 years. Any political party opposed to one simply looks shady and unwilling to trust the people. Think how stupid westminister’s attempts to derail the scottish referendum have been (ironically, once they stopped doing this, support for the union went up)

Currently about 25% of the public have taken a hardline stance on either side of the EU question. About 50% undecided. Which is a massive amount to play for. Ironically Cameron’s stance of ‘in europe but with a reformed relationship’ is probably the mainstream position.

Delay, dither and deny the public a referndum and euro-scepticism gets more popular, particualrly with farage playing an anti-politics card and given free reign in the media. If Milliband comes out and says “our relationship with europe is crucial to the economy. Lets sort the issue out for good so everyone knows where they stand” he wins points from all sides for being open and democratic. He even looks statesmen like for doing something people are aware he probably wouldn’t like to do.

But the points go to the person who is first on this. Cameron has almost go there, but stating “in a while” meant he has missed the open goal.

I am getting so annoyed by Britain’s policies towards the EU that I will propose a referendum in the rest of the EU to kick out the UK.
And if I’ll be in the UK for the EP election, I’ll be voting for UKIP just to get rid of the UK. The rest of Europe would be much better off and could move on.

Labour should make a point of not standing at the next election promising an `in-out’ referendum on the EU. It should promise rather that it will seek to renegotiate the founding treaties in accorance with socialist principles replacing the current neo-liberal ones which are tearing the EU apart. In the meantime it should promise not to enact any anti-working class EU edicts. It needs to present a radical new vision for Europe and the EU.

If however there is an in-out referendum socialists cannot possibly vote positively for neo-liberal principles even before whatever renegotiations Cameron is able to secure such as getting rid of Human Rights and Working Time Directives.

Best thing for Labour to do would be to abstain en masse from the private members bill vote.

Categorize it as nothing more than an attempt by Cameron to appease the raving right of his party – and treat with disdain a move that creates such uncertainty just to win a party political game.

“All three major parties showed their contempt for the public and the principle of democracy over this issue by failing to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which they’d all promised in 2005.”

Richard Carey.

There was no Lisbon Treaty in 2005, it hadn’t even been conceived then. Labour promised a referendum on a proposed EU Constitution, but that was dead in the water within a month of the election, because two countries had already rejected it.

The only person to offer a referendum on Lisbon – and a “cast iron” one at that – was Cameron, but as with so many of his promises (especially “no top down reorganisation of the NHS”), he reneged on it.

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Good advice, Labour have had their fingers burnt in the past by mirroring tory policy, they still need to win back the trust of their traditional supporters, postulating about the EU is not the way to do it.