Very good Sunder.

One of the early mistakes of New Labour (in my opinion) was to deprioritize its links with its European social democratic sister parties and exclusively focus on the US Democrats. I think that very much skewed Blair’s world vision and contributed considerably to the decision to support the US over Iraq (although, of course, by then the Democrats were out and Bush was in).

Hopefully this initiative is part of the process of re-building those links – while obviously also working closely with the Obama administration. I hope that Labour also looks beyond Europe, though, as well. There are mainstream left-of-centre/social democratic parties throughout the south who should be Labour’s natural allies, but currently feel little affinity with it.

Congratulations on Next Left, incidentally, it is great.

I hate this “disproportionate” stuff.

It suggests that it was not Israel who began this conflict by breaching the ceasefire on November 4th…

Surely, James, that’s why it becomes even more disproportionate?

Yeah, as if killing less civilians would make it more “proportionate” – when there was no need for them to start the war in the first place.

Europe’s mainstream social democratic and socialist parties have been strongly united in their approach to the current crisis – unequivocal opposition to the Israeli response

Except our own “mainstream social democratic” party – their response has been full of equivocations, sadly. If the PES want to put their money where their mouth is, then they’ll need to call for the EU to suspend talks over upgrading its relationship with Israel, and for the ones in government, eject their Israeli ambassadors. It’s easy to say you condemn Israel, but such warm words have not stopped us selling arms to them.

Of course, this is unlikely to happen.

I agree with Conor WRT Labour and Europe. What’s always puzzled me is that not only did Blair favour relations with the US over those with Europe but he seemed to naturally favour right wing European governments over leftish ones. I guess the reason is that Europe and its social democratic governments were associated with such unfashionable “Old Labour” ideas as strong workers’ rights, regulated markets etc as opposed to our “dynamic and flexible” economy with its “light touch” regulation. Which turned out well.

All the comentators seem to have forgotten that even during the six months or so of cease fire, hamas continued to shell Sderot, then Ashdod and Ashkelon..
Israel did not respond.

I believe that even the UN allowes a sovereign country to defend itself and its citizens, Israel.

hamas publicly declares that it wants Israel out of its location. Do you think that Israel should turn the other cheek?

In the secound world war, U K was attacked, just to be conquered, not to be eliminated. It faught back to defend its subjects and citizens.. Yet you deny Israel the same basic right of peaceful existance!!!

Did it really Dr.?

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10123.shtml

“Dr” – I’m guessing you haven’t received the memo, but continually repeating discredited and pointless arguments on internet forums will not convince anyone. Israel’s actions undermine its own peaceful existence. Israel did not respond? Why was it blockading Gaza for two years? Should Hamas turn the other cheek? You see, every argument you make is so illogical and pathetic that you could flip it round and the same would be “true” for the opposite side.

Let me hazard a guess as to the next few talking points you’ll regurgitate:

“hamas is to blame for civilian casualties” – ok, that would be like saying Israel is responsible for the rocket attacks on its population? absurd, no?

“israel tries to avoid civilian casualties” – by telling 100 civilians to hide inside a building, and then shelling it the next day, resulting in at least 30 dead, including children?

Guys, this is getting circular now…

That was what I was trying to point out – that the arguments being used to justify Israel’s latest war crimes are the same ones being used last week, and are as easily refutable.

Good point Sunny

Whatabout a bit less whataboutery chaps and chapesses?

Or whatabout “unequivocal opposition to the Israeli response and to Hamas’ attacks on Israeli citizens; strong support for an immediate ceasefire and for a comprehensive peace settlement” instead.

What about… we rig everyone with electro-shock pads and if they fire a rocket they get severely stunned….and US satellites launch a pie to hit them in the FACE…..

….from SPACE.